Spirit artist, medium, and creator of the Passages Oracle deck, Liliana Perez shares her process of creative collaboration with spirits, navigating the thinning of the Veil, and cultivating your own spirit art practice.
In this episode, spirit artist and medium Liliana Perez shares her personal artistic process of collaborating with spirits and shares essential info for starting your own spirit art journey.
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About the Artist
Liliana Perez (she/her/ella) is a first-generation Xicana indigena, cosmic channel, and artist.
As a natural-born medium; with over 20 years of experience reading the tarot, she uses her connection with spirit, as well as her love for play and expression through art to give the deceased a voice and help the living find clarity and connection. Liliana is the creator of the Passages Oracle and offers spirit art and mediumship sessions.
You can follow Liliana's work on IG @l.ii.l.ii.a.n.a or visit her website www.sunnandmoonstudio.com
About the Host
Zaneta (they/them) is a queer, multi-Filipinx sound ritualist, listening educator, nature recordist, tarot reader for artists, and podcast host based in Hudson Valley. At the core of their work is a deep desire to remember how to live in interconnectedness. Whether that is through meditation and connecting with the self, or in community rituals to connect to the land, Zaneta weaves sound and ritual to create experiences that transform the way participants hear and connect to the world.
In the spirit of an interconnected world, Zaneta focuses on supporting folx to make their art and express themselves fully, knowing that interconnection and interdependence are rooted in our individual wholeness and that our authentic creative expression is at the heart of that wholeness. It’s towards this collective vision that Zaneta offers channeled tarot readings for creative liberation, and offers readings to support artists in navigating their careers and projects.
To learn more about Zaneta’s work visit
Instagram @soundartmagic
About the Podcast
Art Witch is where creativity, magic, and healing align for personal and collective liberation. Hosted by Brooklyn-based sound ritualist, arts educator, and tarot reader Zaneta, Art Witch aims to provide resources for the creative journey. In this podcast you’ll hear from a variety of artists, witches, healers, and experts sharing their wisdom and stories, all with the intention of helping folx make art and share their unique magic with the world.
Art Witch has a Patreon community where members meet regularly for group meditations, full moon rituals, and community conversations on art and magic. In addition, we have a full library of meditations and videos for the creative mystical journey.
To support this podcast and become a member, visit www.patreon.com/soundartmagic
Instagram @artwitchpodcast
Collaborating with Spirits: Spirit Art and Mediumship with Liliana Perez
[00:00:00] Zaneta: Hello and welcome to Art Witch, the podcast where creativity, magic, and healing align for personal and collective liberation. I'm your host Zaneta and welcome. Art Witch aims to provide resources for creative empowerment, helping folks make and share their art and also find their authentic expression. In this podcast, you'll hear from.
variety of artists, which is, and healers, as well as experts in various art industries and related fields, all with the intention of helping folks share their art,
[00:01:00] Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the podcast. I'm Zaneta and thank you so much for tuning in. Today's episode, we're going to get into mediumship. We're going to get into collaborating with spirits. But before we get into that conversation. I want to bring up a couple of things that are happening that are coming up. The first thing is that the Art Witch circle. Is meeting on December 21st, 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM on zoom Eastern standard time. Art Witch circle started in September and has been going these last few months.
And it's been amazing to see people learning how to read for their art and their career. Getting mini readings. Getting regular check-ins with their creativity. And just being in a mutually supportive, magical creative environment.
I think for many of us, [00:02:00] we are wonderfully magical in our entirety, all the time, but it is a lot to navigate the world. Where, you know, Witchcraft isn't a common thing that's understood. Tarot isn't a common thing that's worked with. Talking about energy, talking about spirits or psychic work or anything like that. You know, these are things that often take a lot of context, take a lot of conversation or explanation. And frankly, I cherish the communities and the relationships that I have to folks who are able to have those understandings intact already. Who are able to jump right into a conversation about Tarot about witchcraft. Who understand what it means to be an art witch or identify with that? I cherish those people and those spaces. And so I think the Art Witch circle is truly becoming that [00:03:00] kind of space. And I'm very, very thankful for it personally.
Obviously I'm teaching in that space. I'm reading in that space, but I'm also just really grateful for being with like hearted witches.
We've been learning a lot about how to read the tarot for our art and career. I recently covered the major Arcana. In our next session, I'm going to cover the minor Arcana and I'm going to cover how to channel. And the idea behind this is that come January. We're going to be doing a year ahead reading for ourselves and doing a year ahead, ritual together in Art Witch.
So our next session is December 21st on winter solstice. And then our year ahead, ritual and reading circle is going to be on. January 11th. Yes. 1, 1, 1. [00:04:00] It just worked out that way.
And if you would like to participate in this, you can subscribe to the Patreon at the Art Witch circle level and above. So the Art Witch circle level is $10/ a month. And that gives you access to the live zoom sessions where we meet. So we usually meet once a month on a Saturday, once a month. And I share any kind of PDFs and notes from the session. I share the replay in the Patreon so you have kind of forever access to those things.
In this last session I wrote a whole huge guide to the major Arcana, which is now living on the Patreon. Those kinds of things are just some of the goodies. Some of the things that are getting cooked up in this container of the circle. And I'm really excited to share more [00:05:00] about the minor Arcana and about art spells and about different spells for your career. For your money.
Like, there's a lot of things that I have ideas about for the next year that I'd love to share in this space. So you're supporting not only this podcast by subscribing, you're not only getting access to these live sessions. These replays and all of the materials that go with these topics. But you're also supporting me in creating a body of work around, art witchery, tarot, creativity. So it's really exciting to have that support, and to have people who I can write towards, who I can create these materials for. So, That's a really powerful creative crucible for myself as well. And I know that a lot of the people who are joining these sessions are creating [00:06:00] incredible works children's books, decks, like all sorts of really cool things.
Just think about like, if that's something that you would like, if you'd like a thriving artist community. If you'd like to get deeper with tarot with witchcraft, for your art. Consider joining and supporting the podcast by being a part of the Art Witch circle Patreon.
I know a lot of people who listen to this podcast can't make the live sessions for Art Witch circles. So if you would like to have access to the replays, asynchronously, you can join at any paid subscription level. I think the lowest one is at $4/ a month and that gives you access to all the meditations. All of the PDFs and materials from the sessions. And any of the replays. So it's kind of a cool way to study on your own. Get into these topics on your own and, you know, [00:07:00] explore more.
The other thing that's coming up is that I am opening my books for year ahead readings. If you have been, looking for some kind of way to start your creative year. Start, the year in a way that gives you some agency, some sense of direction, some clarity. This is really powerful.
I go through month by month and I pull cards, I channel whatever is coming through around those energies and then I also give you a lot to work with around how to navigate that stuff. What are you being kind of called into at this time of the year? I think you're ahead readings give us some sense of the topography of energy. When it's going to be higher, when it's going to be lower, when it's going to be crunchy, when it's going to be activating and energizing and different ways [00:08:00] of being, embodying, and creating.
So those year ahead readings will be happening in January. I'm going to open my books for December, and a portion of these proceeds are going to go towards a fundraiser for my friends top surgery. I feel really strongly about supporting them in their journey and if you want to donate towards a really powerful cause and also get a reading for your art for your personal, year ahead. This is the time to do it. So I will leave the link down below so that you can be notified about readings. And those will open up, come December. So without further ado. Here is today's episode.
[00:08:57] Zaneta: Today I am really, [00:09:00] really excited. I'm like celebrating and dancing inside because I am joined by a really good friend of mine who is Such an inspiration in her art, such an inspiration in her evolving work.
She's been a medium, a cosmic channel, a spirit artist for so long, like really, really doing the deep work. Welcome Liliana Perez. Oh my gosh, Liliana. I'm so happy that you're here.
[00:09:33] Liliana Perez: I am too. I'm really excited and like giddy about it.
[00:09:37] Zaneta: I would love to start where I usually start with everyone who pops on this show and talk about journey. You are an artist, you're a deck creator, you know, you created the passages oracle. You've been a tarot reader, a medium, you've been giving readings for a long time.
You've had a All [00:10:00] sorts of work that you have done in your lifetime. And I would just love to hear a little bit about how you got started into psychic mediumship work, how you got into art, just sharing a little bit of your story and your journey.
[00:10:15] Liliana Perez: Getting into like psychic work or realizing that maybe I was a psychic. I feel like since I was a child I've always known, like, I remember, you know when someone would ask what do you want to be when you grow up, you know, in elementary school and they kind of start planting those seeds. I always had that like. I'm a psychic, it was either a psychic or like some kind of like performer or artist, like whatever. And, I would see spirits when I was little and I just felt normal. And then flashed forward to, my teenage years getting my first deck. And then in my twenties, really getting back into an offering reading, like I just always had this ability to just know things and it felt like it was a part of myself.
But it didn't feel like it was something that was outside of myself. It felt normal. Like [00:11:00] everyone had the same abilities or those sorts of things and then when I really thought that it was something that I could pursue professionally.
It was more so of getting past the imposter syndrome or getting past the sense of like worthiness that, Oh, I can do this. That really started when I actually went into learning about energy healing.
At the time I was a hairdresser and I was having a lot of clients just randomly out of nowhere telling me, Hey, you know what? Like I always leave feeling, not just better about myself, but they would on some form, some level would say they would feel lighter or they would feel like recharged or just lit up again. And so they would say, have you thought about going down this path or like looking into this kind of energy work?
And so I was like, Oh, I have, but I'm going to like, follow that. So I did, and it was Reiki. And then at that point, when I started doing it to myself and like family. I [00:12:00] Really like the mediumship really started to come in to where I would see these things and I would communicate with my client I'm like, oh there's this and even then naively I didn't realize that that's what it was It was just like, oh, you know, this person's coming to me.
It's your grandpa He's saying this and like also I think you need like not a medical professional, but I'm sensing this You know, just take it the grain of salt and then that Led into me just kind of following my gut and like what I wanted to do.
I've you know, I have adhd and so it's been a struggle And a blessing to learn that it's okay to pivot and wear many hats because that's just how I am. I feel so confined It makes me physically unwell to just stick to one thing. And, listening then to, you know, to the gut feeling or intuition, you know, whatever folks subscribe to. I kept, hearing from this man, who i now know is one of like my spirit guides that would come and be like, you need to do a deck. You need to [00:13:00] create an Oracle deck. And, I would just cast it aside because I didn't feel good enough. Like I didn't feel worthy enough to call myself an artist. That was something that I always loved as a kid growing up but you know, in the 90s and I think also just how my family was kind of raised and it's not a dig on them, I just think it's over time we as people evolve and like, oh, wait, let's be considerate of all of the kids in the family.
Like, we were labeled, you know, I was labeled as the one that like loved to love and got the dolls and got all the stuff. whatever stuff. I never got like an art set. My sister would get the art sets and would get all that stuff. And I would get books, which I loved, but I wanted the art stuff too. So like from that point on, I never kind of pursued it or was too embarrassed to like share.
So when I got into the Oracle deck, I was like, screw it. I'm just gonna go for it. And, that I think really kind of was what opened [00:14:00] this portal for me, if you will, of really believing in myself. And, trusting that like, you know, it doesn't matter what anyone says about what I'm making or what any artist is making, because at the end of the day, it's all subjective either way. And I do it for myself, right? I'm doing it for me to feel to be able to express and release what's in there. And then I can look back at it years, you know, from down the road and be like, Okay, I'm glad I'm glad I actually did it rather than being like, Oh, I didn't do that.
And what a regret that was.
[00:14:31] Zaneta: That part is really key, because there's this idea that, everything is for someone else, but I think getting into psychic and mediumship experiences and work, it's like you see the totality of existence in a different way, and it kind of shows you like when you're making art, it's beyond this, it's like, For this experience and that's really important, but it's also like, I don't want to [00:15:00] be a ghost wandering this world. Like I want to do the things that I know, wanted to deliver in this lifetime, but then also feel well, in that I had done them. Is that kind of a similar sensation of that for you at all?
[00:15:14] Liliana Perez: I don't know if it's like my Scorpio moon but like, I kind of also approach things like, when I'm no longer in this physical flesh suit, I would love to have these things. If someone randomly finds my stuff at a thrift store that I made my art somewhere, like, I love that there's still something An essence of not necessarily me, but like of the message that I'm channeling still out there. Do you know what I mean?
At the same time, like, I can't say it's just me. Part of me wants to get better at being able to say, okay, like, I'm making this, that's basically, like, my message, and then there's, like, okay, now I'm making this, and this is a message from Spirit. And, TBH, it's so intertwined that I, I just, can't do it.
[00:15:58] Zaneta: I'm literally living for [00:16:00] this segment of the conversation because just like in marketing or just in presentation or just the way that like things get two dimensionalized or distilled and trying to share something across online platforms or even in person.
It's like, how can I communicate this to you? it's very. interwoven. It's very interwoven, the experience of channeling, the experience of like, where we begin and where we end and like, who's coming through. And, and I think that it can be clearer at times for sure. There's like times where you're like, Whoa, what the heck was that?
Or how the heck was that? Or like, who the heck was that? I'm not saying there aren't signs and signals that are pointing to a clear, collaboration happening, you know, like some other being coming through, but in the creative process, this is like maybe the most important thing that like gets lost so often is we are [00:17:00] always collaborative in creative process.
And that's not something that just gets easily pieced apart and like, okay, now it's spirit. Now it's me. Now it's spirit. Now it's me.
[00:17:14] Liliana Perez: Yeah I like completely agree. Like as you were saying that, I can hear one of them and they're like, you lose the sazon, when you start to like compartmentalize things or you're like, okay, like, as you said, this is them, this is me, this is them, this is me. You start to lose the magic that you and them are making together, you know
[00:17:32] Zaneta: And like why we need to segment it is really interesting to me too. Like what in our modern society says that we have to label and organize things in such a way that it would, delineate us in this way. it's like, That's not how I experience being in the world at all. Like it's not a segmented experience. So it's very unclear to me, [00:18:00] like why that needs to be so prioritized the labeling and the organizing and the separating.
[00:18:06] Liliana Perez: yeah personally, I mean this is my opinion and like, you know, obviously like I know that there's certain people like That works for them like they need to like compartementalize and they need to be structured in that way. And that's wonderful If that's what works for folks, but for me, I feel like it's because, I think it scares people in power to see so many folks living their life as the individual that they are without all having to fit inside of a box and like if we can't make sense of it and we're just kind of flowing through life , like giving too many individuals a sense of power. Cause we do live a life where you're just like, Oh, I'm cool. What I do make sense to me, what you do make sense to you. Like, that's great. And we feel confident in what we're doing. Not questioning ourselves as much.
We're not like allowing that little egoic complicated part of the human brain that's like, Hey, wait, no, you got to do it this way. Cause that's the right way. Or that's the expected [00:19:00] way. We do, we lose the sense of trust. We lose like confidence in some way, shape or form. And I think we confine ourselves a lot. To me, that's my personal opinion. Just like in school, you know, like in elementary school, when if kids were left handed, they forced them to be right handed. I think that's a very similar way of like, no, no, no. You all have to fit and it's easier to control y'all or direct you to what we think is, you know, the proper way.
[00:19:25] Zaneta: What it brings up in my, mind is this idea of the ecology that we exist within, like the spirit ecology that we exist within. People who are connected to their guides, who are aware of their relationships, not just living on this side and, you know, beyond, I feel like there's a sense of power in being rooted that way.
There's a sense of like connection and power, that transcends the things that we're dealing with. Under capitalism, the things that we're [00:20:00] dealing with under oppression, like you cannot break a connected spirit, so like the idea of trying to organize label and separate our gifts or skills, like to an extent that it's like, well, this is me. Now this is spirit. This is me. Now this is spirit. It's like, who does that benefit? Really? Like, who does that actually benefit? Cause I don't feel that that benefits me often as an artist or as a psychic worker, oftentimes I'm like, I need to call everyone in that I am connected to so that I can actually do this work.
Let's talk a little bit about some of the projects that you've gotten up to over the years, cause there's some like really good ones. I feel like what you were getting into with the passages Oracle was so interesting because it's like the process of doing that deck was this expansive portal that you went through, like an initiation of sorts that like [00:21:00] shuttled you through a Into a new level of confidence, maybe a deeper sense of like what your skills are, what you're doing, how you're doing it, who you're working with.
I'd love to hear a little bit more about the process of making this deck in particular.
[00:21:19] Liliana Perez: Initially, when I was first connecting with who I now know as my spirit guide, I just had the conversation. I'm like, okay, if I'm making this oracle deck- it was almost, when I say conversation to it, I'm not going into like a meditation. I would maybe begin it by closing my eyes sometimes and like saying, okay, like chat with me. But at the time. I was still working at the salon I remember being in the break room and be like, okay sitting at the table like all right. Tell me what are the prompts, what are the themes for the deck and I would just sit there in my journal like okay and just free write everything that would come through and then at that point, it was like 88 or almost 90, themes and I'm like, no, this
is,
[00:21:57] Zaneta: my gosh.
[00:21:59] Liliana Perez: this is too [00:22:00] large. I was like, I think we need to draw this back. So it very much was just me, like, it's you and I were having a conversation right now. It's except, you know, he is not physical form and that's how it first started. So then I would go through each one and then we would be like, okay, I'm like, I think this one works. And that's how we went back and forth. And then we narrowed it down to the 55. And then, the way that my brain works, I had to, on like this big piece of paper, just put all of the themes for each card. And then I would just kind of go through and like pick which one I wanted to start with and then work it that way.
And I probably, I did so many rough drafts of that and it's similar to how I do like channeling work now if I would. just having like a one on one mediumship session. session. sometimes I close my eyes, sometimes I don't, but I usually see it in my mind's eye of like, okay, this is what it's going to look like, or I don't see it.
And they're kind of communicating to me, okay, you're going to draw something that looks like this, [00:23:00] or I see the image and then they're telling me, okay, these are the colors you're going to use. And then you want to do a little sharper here and that was the a process. And then I, had everything illustrated and I set it down for a little while, like, I didn't want to look at it because I wanted to give myself a break to make sure that, like, I'm not rushing to get it done and what was birthed actually felt aligned with, the intention of the deck. And then there were a few images that I was like, I don't like this. And then I launched the Kickstarter and then I was like, okay, I need to like buckle down and get these images. And the issue was, was I was just doubting myself. I got really in my head of, is this actually, good artwork? Like, is this actually gonna be good? And am I also conveying the messages that they want to convey? And it was pretty like basic muggle work. I feel like in terms of like how, you know, I, as much as I would love to be like, Oh, you know, I [00:24:00] lit candles and I did all these things. I didn't do that.
I was just kind of like, all right, tell me what we're gonna do, you know, and then. I would get frustrated sometimes, Because we wouldn't see eye to eye with some things, and that's because my human brain was like, No, I want it to look this way, and then it'd be like, no, no, no, it needs to look this way. And I think that's the biggest part with spirit, any kind of spirit art or channeling work, you gotta let go. You gotta let go of control, and even if you're not a medium, and you're creating any kind of artwork, we gotta let go of the ego, or the parts of ourselves that doubt, and are trying to control what something needs to look like, and just let flow what we're seeing or feeling needs to come out.
Does that make sense?
[00:24:40] Zaneta: Oh, totally. It's so odd being an artist and especially being a spirit informed artist, because You have your aesthetics, you have things that you're attracted to that you are like, Oh my gosh, that art is so gorgeous. I love it. It's so inspirational. And then there's a part of self that's like really attached [00:25:00] to a certain style or a certain aesthetic or a certain way of doing things.
But what you do and how you do it and like, what happens with that kind of collaboration and what wants to come through, may not be that. It may not be like the same aesthetic lining up. I've seen a lot of overlap for people. But often There's a navigating, there's a compromise that needs to happen.
And also there's, an understanding that like the skills that you have where you are now.
is enough
[00:25:34] Liliana Perez: Oh, absolutely. That's something that like, even when I'm like doing the channeled pieces, I, You know, there's a similarity amongst all of them, but then there are some where I'm like, whoa, like that looks so different from how I normally would draw something. And I love that because, to me, it's like a pat on the back of like, okay, like I really let go.
I was really able to just go into like a trance drawing.
[00:25:59] Zaneta: One of [00:26:00] the things I think about a lot is when we're kind of like becoming aware of these connections to spirit or through mediumship or, you know, through energy work or psychic work or, you know, there's this interesting period where it's like, okay, all this stuff is happening. All this stuff's in the awareness, all this stuff is opening up. It's like this new world almost. And it's incredible. The experiences can be so validating and profound and beautiful, but also, there's this like, okay, I'm a self, I'm a person in this experience. And there's like this sense of boundaries, usually sense of protection that follows emerging into, this work. And I'm curious if you could kind of just share with us a little bit about, coming more and more into this work, into these [00:27:00] practices. And then like the parallel journey of protection boundaries and sense of your energy and who you are as you're doing this.
[00:27:09] Liliana Perez: Yeah, initially, like when the floodgates open, there is like this awareness of like, okay, I need to make sure I put boundaries up. I need to make sure that I'm like, you know, protecting not only like my own energy, but like I shared space, like with my partner and my bonus child, like, I want to make sure they're, that they're, good too, you know. And so it's very simple. Like what I would do, it's either I approach them as if they were just like living people of like, Hey, you know, these are the times that we can chat. If I'm in this room, then we can chat as soon as I enter here, like we're on, but if I'm outside of this space, if I'm in my home, if I'm out anywhere, I was really good, and I say was because that's something I'm trying to work on again, of establishing those boundaries.
I would make oils and put that on myself. I [00:28:00] always have, like, this little, affirmation that I would state, every morning when I wake up, calling my energy back to myself. When I, before I go to bed, I say the same thing, like, y'all, no, not when I'm sleeping. But I would be lying if I said that like I stayed on top of it or I stay on top of it all of the time because life happens and you know and I'm also the kind of person where I kind of like to test my own limits to see like All right, let me just see how it, how, how
much I can, like, how much I can take on. And I like to push myself in that way. So there have been times where, you know, I'll be somewhere and I get like, I'm like, I gotta go, we gotta leave. Like, I'm feeling just, you know, and I would think, oh, I'm just, I'm getting overstimulated because of my just human self. And then I realized, wait a minute, no, it's because I didn't set the boundary.
But I think it depends on like, an individual and what they like, like, and what's easy for a person.
[00:28:57] Zaneta: I love that. Like the personal [00:29:00] preference, or what you kind of gravitate towards. I really resonated when you said like, I like to test my limits or push my boundaries or something like as an Aries rising. I'm always like, if it. Doesn't scare the fuck out of me. Have I even lived yet? Like, like everything that I end up doing is like, okay, yeah. Like, let's just like, go and do this thing that like totally scares the shit out of me, but, um, but we're good. Right. Like, and then I'll be like, why does my whole system need like months to recuperate from this experience?
Mm
[00:29:34] Liliana Perez: See, that's how I feel like in my home, there's like a few spirits that like, I let them live in the house, like they don't bother anyone, or at least they don't bother me. Like, I'm not perturbed by them. And Because I like to leave that door of communication open sometimes of like, hey, this is a house, this is a space that I, like, I'm here for those, you know. But I have to remember that like, not everyone is comfy [00:30:00] with that sometimes. Yeah, like my sister, when she would stay at my house, And her husband, they would be like, Oh, we just saw some like, because they also have these little like psychic gifts too. And for a while, my sister was like, I don't want to sleep at the house.
Like I'm not gonna sleep in your room because there's always like these two that come in and I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. Remember to be like, not with anyone else, just me or just stay in my studio space. Because if not, like, no one's going to want to come over.
[00:30:29] Zaneta: Yeah, that's so good. You're like, my human relationships might suffer as a result of my spirit relationships. Oh my god, Liliana, that's so funny. I, okay, well, I'm gonna like, I'm gonna drop a little, like, info bomb here. Um, I live in a former funeral home.
[00:30:52] Liliana Perez: my god, I love that. I wanted to be, I wanted to work at a funeral home when I was like, I really, it required a lot of [00:31:00] like, you needed a degree. Like there was like all this stuff, but I
[00:31:03] Zaneta: It's evolved, it's evolved and it's very interesting. Both of both me and my partner do a lot of like, you know, I do more like psychic work. He does like actual mediumship work and we both kind of do stuff in this space together, but it really opened up actually living here a lot and that, that conversation about like when and where and how It's interesting, because I feel like I have a lot of boundaries around it, I feel like I kind of like, I'm personally more of like, I can only handle so much of this, and then I get a little like, you know, let's go eat a sandwich, like,
[00:31:46] Liliana Perez: Oh yeah.
[00:31:48] Zaneta: And I think that it's been a very interesting journey to understand my nervous system and my psychic mediumship, [00:32:00] abilities within like my nervous system and trauma experience. So like for me, you know, I've been noticing that a lot of the hyper vigilance that I've had is really paired with like my psychic reaching.
That's what I call it. Like you reach like way further than you need to reach, you know more than you need to know, you know, it's like, you're not trying, but some part of you is trying and that nervous system experience of like, okay, I don't need to know about these people. I don't need to know about this situation.
Like there's so much work in just . You know, like the most basic thing like de stressing or just telling yourself, I don't need to be turned on, like, I don't need to have the channel open. I don't need to know this information, you know, about, you know, And especially like someone who lives and works in the city often, it's like way too much information,
In [00:33:00] engaging with like New York city.
So there's this sense of like having to really just do those earth things that like, tell my body and whatever. channel experience, you know, that I have to like, kind of calm down. You don't have to like work so hard. Do you have any like thoughts on that?
[00:33:23] Liliana Perez: I definitely can absolutely relate to being in certain spaces and like, Being aware of one's nervous system and what they can handle and what feels supportive. But I love how you called it psychic reaching because it absolutely does feel like that and I think in the you know quote unquote beginning I felt like I would do that a lot like when I was really focused on like But now I've switched my perspective of, I, I mean, I love the living, you know, obviously like I'm living, so I, you know, I love the living too, you know, but, I [00:34:00] just always said this is intention. I really have established that with them. I'm like, I'm here for y'all. not to sound, you know, rude, but I'm like, if there's a waiting line or queue, like I'm, I want to get to y'all. So I, in some weird way, like that's also evolved kind of naturally with kind of their guidance of saying like, focus on the dead. And it'll be a lot easier for you because, you know, being a neurodivergent person I don't get as overstimulated by the dead as I do if I'm focusing and picking up on the living and like what they're doing and what's going on with them. And like, Oh crap. Like, cause I'll go to a restaurant, like, you know, if, if I'm having dinner with my family and I'm like listening and feeling all conversations that are going on, all the feelings that are happening. And I leave so drained, but if I go in with the, okay, we're dialing that down, we're going to turn that off, and I'm picking up on perhaps like deceased loved ones of [00:35:00] the people that are in that space, or just whomever's walked in, it feels so different. It actually feels way more filling, and I think it's just because I've established that, like. You know, as I'm singing out loud, I'm like, Oh yeah, that's how it does work for me. Cause I, so thank you for bringing, like asking that because that's just come to my own awareness right now. Being able to like sit here and like reflect on that.
[00:35:20] Zaneta: I love hearing that so much. I think it also puts some stuff into perspective for myself because, I feel a similar way, but I feel it about, being in like forests. And like being in the woods or being like, at large natural bodies of water in mountains or things like that.
Like, I always joke that I'm not like an introvert or like an extrovert, but I'm actually like an ecovert. Like my, my relational, orientation is actually primarily revolved around like land and trees and fungi and water and elements. And like my human relationships thrive so much more [00:36:00] because I'm like actually connecting regularly and often
in communion with the spirits of place. And so for me, like a lot of my, and maybe this is like a North note in Taurus thing, but Like I start to have a lot of like tension in my human relationships and with the human world in general, if I have not been like outdoors long enough and like really, really there, like, and by that quality of time, I really mean like conversational, psychic, communing, channeling time in the woods, basically. not just like, oh, I'm hiking through or not just like I'm camping here, but like, I'm actually like dialogue.
[00:36:46] Liliana Perez: Yeah. You're spending time. Like it's an entity, like it's a being You're visiting your family or like. BFF we're filling each other's cup. And yeah, I, I get that.
That. makes me think of, you know, where I live, I mean, [00:37:00] I'm pretty central, but like, it's now it's like traffic.
It's like almost two to three hours anywhere to get to like nice. I'm I'm kind of picky with like nature and where I want to go. but, I feel like everyone always says this, I love the ocean, like, but I love the ocean and I love the desert. And I remember, when I was a little kid, my cousin had, we had this, this plan to go to this like really great park in the city that she lived in. I love this park because there's like so many like fairy looking type little like coves and things like that. And I remember she asked my sister, she's like, Oh, hey, so there's this band. I can't remember. It was like some popular band in the 90s that's playing a free show in the city in San Francisco. Do you want to go to that or do you want to go to the park? And my sister and I looked at each other like, we want to go to the park. And it was very much because of that. Like it wasn't because we wanted to play. Like there wasn't like a playground. It was just all of like these trees. And we just wanted to like go tuck ourselves in.
[00:38:00] And that's what we would do. We would just lay there. And it felt good. Very much like my battery's getting recharged. Like I, you feel, I don't know, like you come back home, you know, when you're in certain places of nature. I mean, maybe for you, it's everywhere. For me, it's like certain, places. I feel like, okay, my spirit feels like I'm back where I'm supposed to be.
[00:38:19] Zaneta: Different Places have different things going on for sure. A lot of my work is amplifying places that are forgotten or that are in a lot of need and like doing a lot of. spiritual work and ritual and offering and singing at those places. because I think I get kind of drawn into them. These little like forgotten pockets.
It's like uncanny. Someone will be on a trail and be like, I want you to know about this place. We're like, have you ever heard of, and like the places kind of like get revealed. Over time. And so [00:39:00] over the last year, I've been kind of like singing to all these like different places in my local area.
And it feels like there's like this constellation or like this mycelial network of like song or like spirit activity. That's just like, these places are like awake, they're alive. But they're not here to like regenerate us necessarily. Like we need to regenerate them. You know what I mean? And like, there are places like what you're talking about that are magical and like incredibly fortified in their energy.
But those places are like, they're special and they are like dwindling because of how we're treating the earth,
[00:39:44] Liliana Perez: Yeah.
[00:39:45] Zaneta: But there are these pockets, these places, like what you were talking about, where it's like you feel the place like able to really give back to you in a tangible way.
[00:39:57] Liliana Perez: Yeah. I, I 100 percent agree with [00:40:00] that. I remember going into some places and like in Northern California and just feeling like oh, just like grief, you know, of the like, the land, like also the history of the land, not just of the energy of like the plant beings that are there, but I'm sure also like human history there.
Like, the desert and I have had a complicated relationship in the beginning because I remember going the first couple times and I'm like, I do not feel welcome here. Like, I feel like spirits of the land, maybe not the land itself, but the spirits of the land are like, mmm, like they're feeling almost like a sense of like, like not having trust. Like, we need to know who you are first and what you're doing. And then over time, like, and I think that's the thing that people forget, it's like, just like when you work with spirit, whether it's like a deceased person, a cosmic being, or like a land spirit, everything has to be reciprocated. You know, we don't just want to take, take, take,
[00:40:52] Zaneta: That kind of like gets me thinking about like these artistic collaborations with spirit beings. [00:41:00] Like what does it look like reciprocity in, in those relationships? What does like. Listening and cuing into the two way flow, the two way flow and like their needs, your needs, the creations needs, like, could you share about anything that you have on that?
[00:41:22] Liliana Perez: for me, the way that I can honor them and actually give them a voice Is what I was mentioning earlier like I have to let go Of what I what i'm drawing the control of what i'm trying to draw. For me, I feel like if they're telling me or showing me their features and I try to control Okay, this little wrinkle. Actually, this would look better if I did it this way. Like, that isn't a form of respect or honoring them, right? Even if, like, that looks like them, it's not fully them. That's one way in which I, Try to reciprocate that energy.
And then I also give them space when I'm not [00:42:00] working on, a piece for someone I like, I mean, you sound silly, but I don't think so. Like doodling. I just open it up, like whatever, whomever, you know, hasn't had a chance to speak or didn't get to fully convey what they would like to say, because sometimes, you know, they, with all due respect, like I want to make sure I give whoever's coming forward all a chance to like, Get on this piece of paper and some are a little bit more. They take a little bit more space, like we have to be fair y'all like we have to be fair Um, so I will doodle and let things kind of let them just get off what they need to get like get off their chest What they need to get off and then I also do the like I have my altar, you know And I always tell them thank you. I also give them the space to Release emotions that they have or are holding through me. So if they're holding grief or rage or frustration or joy or need to cry like I also Allow them I allow myself to be the channel for them.
I don't think that that is necessarily The [00:43:00] thing for everyone to do like I want to say like I do this knowing that like I'm putting myself in a position that I only do it when I have the capacity the bandwidth to do it or my nervous system isn't frazzled in some way shape or form because sometimes it's quite a lot and
I you know but that's those are the ways that I do it
[00:43:23] Zaneta: you're like a spirit art therapist
[00:43:27] Liliana Perez: oh my god I love that
[00:43:29] Zaneta: you're giving a chance for these spirits to work through some shit through this artistic process and this like connective process. And it's like space and time that a lot of beings don't get, like, I just think about that a lot with my own ancestors. Like, I'm the first person in my family who, has won a grant or who, like, gets to make art in this way that, is totally of whatever [00:44:00] volition I have.
Totally free, literally. And even though, you know, my dad was a drummer or like there are people in my family that were very much artistic, very much artists, very much creative, but none of them got to realize any kind of creative vision in the way that I get to do that.
I mean, one of my really big Big portals, like talking about the passage Oracle as being a portal of initiation and an opener. Like one of my big portals for me was one of my earliest art projects, which was called when half is whole, and it was this performance piece that was dedicated to this great grandmother.
And like, Realizing her racial identities and like being able to like sing them and vocalize them and like tell the story of the moon in congruence with like what racial identity, like the idea of being mixed or being half or being whole or being like, you know, all these phases of the moon.
And [00:45:00] anywho, before I felt such a dissonance with this ancestor, like intense. Like anger and like frustration and then like after that it was like Total sea change, like our relationship was just so fluid and so there. And like, it was like the piece that happened through that process of creating was just, it was priceless.
So I feel like this like artistic process as like healing for spirits, for ancestors, it's amazing how that goes both ways, but also like, The gift that you give, like giving that time and space and whatever skills we have over to them.
[00:45:48] Liliana Perez: I love that and that's that sounds so beautiful what you did that's so special because I feel for me, like focus so much on other people that I connect with [00:46:00] my own past loved ones or ancestors in a different way. Like I, if I'm doing it, I tend to focus more on working with plants, like gardening, or like repotting things and that's kind of how I do it. I have it. Honestly put like pen to paper to communicate for them, and I don't know, I mean I probably I'm sure I know subconsciously why, but I can't really say at this time like why I kind of said it for last so I love that you really, you created something so healing and beautiful for your own like that. It's inspiring to me.
[00:46:34] Zaneta: It was really interesting at that time because I was invited. I was like, I got a commission to collaborate with, another artist. And we were supposed to make this whole piece together for this commission. And what ended up happening was I had to be really honest with, with the other artists and say, like, I think I have to make this piece before I can do anything else.
Almost like a roadblock. Like [00:47:00] until I do this, I just can't move forward for some reason. I didn't really understand it. And honestly, it was like a ceremony or a ritual because I literally have not even looked back at that, that work or like, it was just like, it's done, we did it, boom.
it doesn't like live in my portfolio necessarily. It's like, we had to go through that piece in order to like, all come online
[00:47:27] Liliana Perez: Yeah.
[00:47:27] Zaneta: basically. Um, I am curious though, when you mentioned gardening and when you mentioned like repotting plants and like your ancestors, like what that looks like, what does that feel like?
What do you do? Like, can you share a little bit about that? Cause we pulled the ace of earth in this session and
I'm like,
[00:47:46] Liliana Perez: yeah.
[00:47:46] Zaneta: I'm like, I'm pinging with it.
[00:47:48] Liliana Perez: It really is just like, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do like some, not like yard work, but I'm like, I'm gonna, you know, repot some stuff or whatever. I wish I had something more like magical to say, but [00:48:00] it really is either I can hear them of like, okay, you're going to use that pot and grab those little plants because that's what's going to look cute. Or it's just this kind of physical, like feeling of, I think this, I don't know how this is going to work or if it'll even work, but, this is what we're going to do. Like, especially like gardening. Like I never considered myself to have a green thumb or. Be good, with plants but like now I have a crap ton of plants Like it's just second nature and I think a big part of that is just being able to like Figuratively listen to the plant and also like hearing them say, okay, you should probably go check if they're good with water. But I think a part of my inspiration too might even just be having watched my mom, and how she is in terms of like gardening and planting.
I wish you could come here and I can take you to my mom's house because her backyard is total like Every señora's, backyard, and that's her form of creative expression. [00:49:00] She has old, tea kettles, or broken pots, or, like, any kind of container that's just, she's found that's really cute, and can take cuttings from whatever kind of plant, and make them in this cute little, like, pot, and it looks just, she's like, I don't know, I just want to do it, and it feels good. I'm like, okay, mami, that's like you, feeling part of like who we come from too, because we do come from like farmers and like, folks that worked with the land, but that's my kind of, it's very muggle y, you know, I'm just like, okay, let's tell me what y'all want to do.
What would look cute? Or hearing them say, just fill the pot with dirt and throw in the seeds and then see what happens. Like a big part of it is trust. If you've followed me, you know that like a lot of my messages, like, just trust sounds so cheesy, but like, just trust what your body, your gut feeling, your mind, whatever you connect with easily is telling you to do, because more often than not, it's [00:50:00] them, I feel like saying, yeah, like, you're good, you got this, like, and if it doesn't work out, then you learn, and then that's a beautiful thing anyway.
[00:50:08] Zaneta: Well, what this is bringing up for me as you're sharing it is feedback. so when you're going through this process of listening to your ancestors and doing this repotting gardening things that your mom has done, there's such a direct and clear feedback with plants that like, you're either doing it right or you're doing it shit.
It's pretty obvious, like pretty fast. They're very responsive. They're very dynamic. They do not hold back. They're very honest. You'll know if you're like in the flow of what they need or not. So it's kind of interesting because you go, you listen to your ancestral guidance, then you go and you try this things out and immediately or not long after you're getting [00:51:00] feedback about whether or not that shit is real or true or working.
And I think that that's something that like a lot of people, when they're first starting out with connecting to their ancestors, connecting to guides, they're like, is this real? Is this true? And art can be a similar process. It's like, did it work or not? Is it working? Is it, do you feel good while you're doing it?
Is it happening? I'm not saying chasing happy necessarily, but are you getting satisfied? Are you getting fulfilled? Are you starting to like. See change happen for the better. , are you seeing growth? We can kind of look at, the guidance that we're connecting to and just kind of start to be like, is it expansive?
Is it growing? Is it contributing to a sense of overall wellbeing? You know, like plants are really clear. They're
[00:51:54] Liliana Perez: I love it. I wish
[00:51:55] Zaneta: water me.
[00:51:56] Liliana Perez: yeah, dude, and I always tell I feel bad. I'm like, I'm y'all. I'm gonna keep [00:52:00] y'all thirsty because I like I rather keep y'all thirsty than keep you like Cause I've been all over water. So I'm like, okay, like we, I love that you said that because I do, I keep my, I keep mine thirsty because it works. Like we all work, they're all thriving. My sister and my mom will come over and at their house sitting in the new, like I come back and they've watered all of my plants. I'm like, what are you doing? Like we have a system now you're going to, we're going to be like, Oh my God, they like sobbed me over, you know?
[00:52:29] Zaneta: That's so funny. You're like, I've got a delicate balance. It's handled. No one steps into it.
[00:52:36] Liliana Perez: they like it. I, and then, I know which plants like one another. And so I keep those near one another, the ones who don't vibe well, I have them off somewhere else with where they vibe with, like, that's my thing. It's not just like, Oh yeah, come over and make sure you're like, just like, don't mess with my plants.
Don't move them. Don't touch them. Don't water them. Like, not because I don't trust you. It's just because They're happy with where they're at. We have a whole system, you know, dialed [00:53:00] in and it's on a level that like y'all don't understand that the level of what kind of level it's on, you know what I mean?
[00:53:07] Zaneta: Yeah.
I mean, you're tending. You're tending things. You're really paying attention.
[00:53:13] Liliana Perez: yeah. And I think like, I love plants for that reason too, at least for me, if I see that my plants are struggling, then I have to be like, oh my God, when was the last time I watered them? And I think, wait, how am I also doing? Like, am I good? Have I been? Neglecting myself too, like, because I feel like we mirror one another, myself and my plants.
[00:53:33] Zaneta: Oh, totally, totally. I mean, sometimes it takes like the message coming in, like, especially I think for those of us who are so like oriented towards caring for others, like, it's like, If we see it in someone else, we will then check in with ourselves. But that message needs to come in twice, basically.
Like the first time was like you ignoring yourself. [00:54:00] Like I'm talking to me mostly like I ignored myself. And then the second time is like, I'm seeing something around me or someone around me like struggling. And then I'm like, Oh shit, I'm actually struggling. So the message always has to be doubled.
[00:54:14] Liliana Perez: Yeah, oh absolutely I find the same thing in like my readings with folks or in the Spirit talisman offering that I have which It's like channeled artwork with a message from your spirit guides and I get it like that's when the second message comes in where i'm like You Oh, yeah, I think I need to hear that too.
[00:54:33] Zaneta: I feel like that's actually like maybe part of evidentiary mediumship or evidence based\ psychic readings and stuff like that there'll be something like in the environment of the person that you're reading for or whatever that's like, they're like, Oh yeah, like that, that's connected to this.
And I'm like, nah, that's just the double of the message. Like that's like twice fold or like, Or when, sometimes when you're in a reading, you're giving someone whatever the [00:55:00] message and then they're like, Oh yeah, well, I noticed this like in environment. And I'm like, yeah, , it's the message coming through twice because you weren't listening the first time.
[00:55:13] Liliana Perez: I think like, that's also the beautiful thing about like, getting a reading because it's sometimes like, Hey, boo, we've been trying to tell you and you're feeling it, you're hearing it, but you're kind of setting it aside. So okay, if you need someone else to come from someone else, great.
Like,
[00:55:27] Zaneta: Yeah, no. And, and, and that is the beauty. Like, I mean, thank you, Scorpio Moon for teaching us like the relationality of being able to hear, being able to change, being able to take the advice of someone else or something, or like, you know, some, like, this is part of the process of growing is like some, some tending, some, Sharing on some level relationship.
I feel like this time of the year. is where these relationships, these spirit [00:56:00] relationships get really, really highlighted. We're recording this in October, by the way, friends, so, you know, there's a lot of like witches of Instagram shit going on that I, I tend to side eye, but also I'm like, it is rooted in some stuff that's real.
As soon as October kind of hits for me, I feel like a change. Things are quieter externally that allow me to hear things more present. It started though, with this full moon in Pisces, like shit just started really like flooding in even then, but I was like, okay, October, October has got a lot for us.
And I'd love to hear about some of the ways that you, experience the let's we're going to call it the thinning of the veil. We're going to call it like the time of year where maybe spirit sounds a little louder. can you share with us a little bit about that and how you navigate this time of the year?
[00:56:55] Liliana Perez: I get excited because it's like, it's October. Like, it's officially my [00:57:00] favorite month. But in terms of like, do I feel more sensitive or like the channels opened up wider? I feel it's more so of like, there's certain spirits that maybe I think it's the opposite.
You know, like some folks around this time, as you were saying, like, okay, I feel like I'm more in tune or like that channel's vibrating higher. I feel like it's the same with the deceased or with spirits. I feel like there are some who feel comfortable every, every day, every month of the year to like chat.
And then for others, they start to feel like the more of the, okay, I feel able or I have the ability to come through to folks that maybe I wouldn't have been able to with the living prior. And I think I also do get excited. Like I said, I don't think this is for everybody. And I'm sure some folks might be like, okay, cause I know that might not be the most healthy or supportive thing to do, but I like to keep it fairly open. When I leave it open most of the time within my hours that I leave it open I am very clear with who I allow in That is, I guess, something that I'm more mindful of during this time of the [00:58:00] year, is who I'm allowing in or what I'm allowing in.
But like just this week, I was talking to my partner in the bedroom, and I was sitting at the bed, and I saw a different spirit in the house, and she probably was between like nine and Ten years old maybe like eight ten years old and I could see her clear as day like just ran down the hall like she Was playing hide and seek or something and I was like, oh, that's a new one like, okay And then that was that but I have to remember like, oh wait, hold on I can't do that all of the time.
Um, yeah Anyway, it doesn't feel any different for me in terms of like do I feel more open or do I feel more connected? It kind of, because like I said earlier, like I leave that maybe too open a lot of the
times. Um, but anyway.
[00:58:43] Zaneta: Well, that's so interesting. Some spirits may come through more readily at a time like this they may feel more welcome. I mean for me all of October is and like, even through November is a time where I'm like [00:59:00] pretty high up on my ancestral altar duties. It's like, we're, we're getting food regularly. Not that they don't, but , I'm really actively tending that flame. And there's something about that to me that signals, hey, I'm like available. Hey, I'm really listening and paying attention. If there's someone who maybe was more hesitant before to come through, like, cool. We're doing this. And, that space for that. I mean, my friends who are mediums, such as yourself, I feel like you're always holding that space quite often. So it's a really different kind of quality. I do not consider myself a medium. I have mediumship experiences for myself and within like a close circle , but I'm not doing that as a public offering by any means.
I do that work though with spirits of place and doing that communing work in wild [01:00:00] places. And that's what I do. But. That is always on for me. When I go to any place, I'm like, okay, they're talking, here's what's happening. Here's what's like the song. Here's the sounds, this is what we're going to do here. Cool. Got it. You know? So I kind of relate to what you're talking about. Like when you're doing this so often. There is this sense that it's like, Oh, well now just the collectives on board right now. It's like earth day for me.
Like, I'm like, Oh, y'all are like interested in the earth again. Cool.
[01:00:30] Liliana Perez: Yeah. But, and what you said earlier, like a moment ago of like this time of the month also, I think people are more receptive to it, they're more inclined to want to maybe get a mediumship reading or to connect with the dead, , Because it is something that I still feel cautious in who I tell what I do because I think there still is a stigma against it or like people are gonna be like, oh you're just crazy.
Like she's crazy. What is she doing? But I think that's one thing I do enjoy about this month where it's like, yeah, there are [01:01:00] a lot of like witch fluencers that tend to kind of like bombard the scene, but also I think like, Hey, as long as you're giving like, true information, you know, then that's great.
Cause then maybe it'll open people, make people a little bit more open minded. And then even within that, there's so many different schools of thought
[01:01:20] Zaneta: yeah. definitely. And within mediumship spaces and psychic spaces, and culturally like across cultures, what mediumship is and like, when you're thinking of communities where it's like every day. Moment of every day is in communication with ancestors. Like, what does October mean?
[01:01:39] Liliana Perez: Yeah. And that's how I feel like for me, I love this time of the year because of the nostalgia of it. And because now it's like, everything is like celebrating, what I have always felt to be like, my normal way of living.
But I do feel that the veil does get thinner. I do absolutely feel that. It does, and that's [01:02:00] perhaps why, so many folks or spirits, , do feel empowered or able to communicate because there's that opening within the unseen, and then also within the living, folks are becoming more open minded.
[01:02:13] Zaneta: Yeah, well, I mean, it's a reflection of what's actually happening on our planet seasonally. Now, of course we're in the Northern hemisphere, so we're going to talk about this seasonally relative to October lining up with fall for us, not spring in the Southern hemisphere, but like everything is migrating. Everything is changing. There's so much collective dying happening or dormancy or moving towards a hibernation. And so You don't just get to kind of exit the experience of being on earth. You don't get to exit the seasons. That is fundamental to your life.
You're going to wear warmer clothes. You're going to go and like have allergies. You're going to like eat [01:03:00] different foods. You're going to, have less light. There's so many things that are happening that are changing. And that spirit and living parallel movement of like, okay, they get to shift a little bit with our shifting is very interesting.
For folks who are starting to explore mediumship, spirit collaboration, especially in their art, because this is like Art Witch , do you have any thoughts or could share any recommendations as to getting started on that path? Mm hmm.
[01:03:41] Liliana Perez: Just start just start doing it like play with it . I'm gonna show you what my process looks like so that way it may be that can help people may resonate with some folks. Do what feels comfy to you. If you're someone that likes to set the space, like with the candles and like incense, that's beautiful. Do that. [01:04:00] I don't always burn candles just because I sometimes forget to turn them off. And so I don't do that, but I do burn like copal, , incense and I don't go into meditation, but I do focus on like really getting into my breath and then you know, I say my opening prayer that I call on to them and then I share with them what I'm doing. I'm channeling you through artwork. Whoever wants to come through that has a message or wants to share who they are, you're welcome to share with me your features, what you look like, any personal bits, whatever You know, or just what you would like to draw.
And then depending on how I'm feeling, I go into a trance and it just happens. Or I'm dialing into what I'm quote unquote hearing or seeing in my mind's eye. Or even just feeling like sometimes in my, even for some folx, it might be like, I think I might want to draw a squirrel and a Hershey's bar or something.
[01:05:00] Right. And so I just I encourage to trust that just to draw it, because we have to remember in psychic work and mediumship work, it's not meant to make sense to us, the reader, the artist, we just need to like put it on paper or get the message across. And then afterward, You can look at what you're looking at or share it with the person who it was intended for and see it may resonate.
It may not. I just want to encourage folks to really feel empowered by what comes through to them because. What comes through to them is meant to be communicated, meant for them to receive and to communicate with others or with the world because they have. I don't feel like I can connect with every past loved one or every deceased. I mean, I know there's some mediums, you know, not to ruffle any feathers but like I know there are some mediums who believe that like someone can't connect with your daily departed, then they're not a real medium.
And like, I disagree with that because they're just like the living. Except they're not living. they may not [01:06:00] vibe with me. Especially I think that like me being a white passing, you know, person. What if I'm connecting with someone who is of color and they see me and I'm triggering to them?
So they may not necessarily feel initially safe with me. So those are always things that I take into consideration. And I know like, yeah, there might be folks who disagree with me, but I just want artists to just, just create what you want to create. Don't worry about if it makes sense. Just put to paper, put to canvas, work with your hands in whatever way that works is wanting to come through you and that's it. I hope that that makes sense.
[01:06:37] Zaneta: That's like so generous. That's so beautiful. You've shared so much about the detail of how you go through it. It's a powerful, springboard or invitation for someone who already feels called towards this. I think I want to add that in to this thread of conversation, forcing connections you don't have to do [01:07:00] that. There's a connection for you in some way, shape, or form when you're collaborating in art, when you're working.
It's kind of like friends, you don't need to go and be friends with everyone. You don't need to try to force a connection and channel your grandmother or your this or that or whatever.
there's definitely like a sense of reaching out and being available, but there's a difference between being available and, saying, Hey, I'm kind of like want to try this with you. But respecting sovereignty is so important and what I've noticed with working with spirits of place, like you cannot force a collaboration, And you will find yourself in some situations real fast that you're like, shit, that was not kind of the right move.
So there's a trial and error in knowing who's who to work with, who's who that you can connect regularly with or occasionally or like. Under special circumstances. I feel like there are certain ancestors that like to come through that, I need to bake him a cake or some shit. It's a little bit more of a special occasion when [01:08:00] they decide to grace my presence or whatever they're here when I'm kind of bringing something to the table that really attracts them, um, To this process, and that's been interesting, just not kind of blanket assessing all spirits or all collaborations or all connections as being like, they all want the same things. They all need the same things. They all want to work with you in the same way. It's like, I just think that that's, that's very naive to imagine that like the world is just like either this open playground or this totally closed playground. Um.
[01:08:34] Liliana Perez: Absolutely. I think like you said it perfectly because they weren't, I think I really wish, again, this is like based off, you know, my relationship with them. I want to make it clear that it's like not the only or true way, you know, it's just from me with them, but like, they really are, and I'm specifically referring to spirits who have lived on Earth.
They're just like the living y'all like they [01:09:00] really are there are some who still struggle. There are some who are like happier than they were when they were living and then there's some more like I'm good Like I don't I don't want to talk like I love y'all and I'm good But don't lean on me or expect me to come in and share signs because that's not what I want to do.
And some do, that's why when I'm channeling in art, or specifically spirit art, I try to be as clear as possible with folks or transparent, just like in a mediumship session, I can't control who comes forward, because some folks may feel more comfortable in communicating through artwork, whereas others may feel or want to communicate more so in, a one on one, because they want to have the space to really talk to the person and I mean, we still treat them with respect, but if we let go of that expectation, like we don't expect the living to all want to, or we shouldn't expect the living to all want to, be the same. Therefore, how can we expect the deceased to give us what we want or to meet our demands or expectations, you know?
[01:09:59] Zaneta: Yeah, [01:10:00] you know, what it reminds me of a little bit is in the times that guides have wanted to collaborate with me and work with me, what I've noticed is I'll have a dream often ahead of time that will be like kind of the beginning of connecting, almost like someone's Liking your posts, so like sliding into your DMS for a second, like, Oh yeah. Are they rementioned you in a story or something? There's just like this, little bit of a figment of something that starts. And then that kind of precipitates, at least for me and like a more obvious and direct connection and then develops into a collaboration that I tend to over time.
And that's happened to me multiple times where the guides are like, whoever that I was working with, whether it be like a certain Fox spirit or a certain deity or a certain tree spirit or something, there's a dream that often precedes it for me. I don't know if there's like something for everyone else [01:11:00] out there. That's like a little bit of a, nudge, like a spirit nudge That comes ahead of like a full blown encounter or something, but, I think there is something in this kind of process that probably we should just really quickly touch on before, like we wrap up, but the idea of who you allow in.
And when, because you kind of mentioned it a few times in this conversation and I've had some recent experiences that I was like, there's a time and a place and that, uh, and, I'd love to hear a little bit of about like I need to be cognizant and aware of who and when I let in to this process.
[01:11:47] Liliana Perez: So, part of, my opening is, , always just asking for those who are, like, happy, healthy, healed, wise, and well. and, letting them know that, like, those who are not, , I'm here for you [01:12:00] too, but not in this format, like, not in this way. And, there have been occasions where, I mean, Like who would I be if I'm like, Oh yeah, I have complete control over who can make their way through and to connect with me. Like, no, there have been occasions where there have been , like with all due respect, like sneaky depart, like, or problematic departed, like ancestors who've come through.
And I'm like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. Like you are putting on this face of like, Oh, I'm here for the person. I'm here to like, convey this loving message. And it feels icky. Like it feels, It's all of like, red flag, I'm getting goose bumps. Like, okay, no, no, we have to stop that.
And I disconnect that and say, okay, like, well, for another day I'll chat with you, but not in this work, not with this person who's wanting to connect with their dearly departed or even like sometimes I get woken up by Entities, I don't even refer to them as spirits.
I just refer them to refer to them as entities that I [01:13:00] can sense are like, man, y'all just trying to stir up some drama up in this house. Like good grief. And I've taken a lot of time or invested a lot of time in learning how to discern how my body or like intuitive body communicates alongside my physical body, like reactions to when something feels off.
When something is just like, no, no, no, no, this is not. And also like, I just look at practical, like look at things like, how's my family doing? Like, how are their moods doing? You know, how are my pets doing? If I'm totally just becoming like, burying my head in the ground because I'm so focused on everything else. And it's taken some time to like, really be like, no, you guys can't. Um, and I can't say that I excel at that because like I said like maybe that's one of my Somewhat toxic traits is that I do like to leave it open Because I do want to give them attention Depending on what they're sitting with or what they're holding kind of like, you know The six cents where some of them were just [01:14:00] like we need help and no one's listening to us because we're scary And then there's ones that you're like, no, no, no, you just got a we got a clear you out and I try to remember like, okay, you're here, I'll work with you a lot of different time and then help them transition or help them move through what they're holding because Initially, like I was like, something feels off.
I'm clearing them from this house. I'm clearing them because I don't want to help them. I don't want that negative energy, but how do I know what they're struggling with? Like, what if they're feeling grief because this was their land, you know, or if they're feeling grief because , they are able to transition because they haven't been able to release what they're holding.
And it's like, well, then that's why they're coming through. Cause I, I can do that for them, you know, or I'm willing to do that for them too. That's the other thing. I feel like not everyone has to, like, if you can see spirits, that doesn't, and you can communicate them, that doesn't mean that it's your job to have to like, you know, help them
[01:14:59] Zaneta: all the [01:15:00] snaps, all the snaps to this. Thank you for saying that so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. Just because this is part of your. experience is like seeing spirits or, , hearing beings or, you know, all this, does it make it necessarily your work to either tend to their issues or to further explore that?
Or I think there is a real sense of like, our capacities as individuals and what we've been through and like how to navigate what is happening in our spirit experience, our energetic experience. Like for me, I've had some really, really intense experiences with like, um, like a full, um, what do they call it?
I always forget the term, but it's like, what's the one where it's like, you're having a mediumship experience and you have a full [01:16:00] takeover.
[01:16:00] Liliana Perez: It's not just like trans, like you're not, you're, it's beyond that. Like they, I know what you're talking about,
[01:16:06] Zaneta: yeah.
[01:16:07] Liliana Perez: is, but I'm, I should remember what it's called.
[01:16:09] Zaneta: So I've had these experiences with that and I'm like, that's so far beyond what I would ever want to invite in or how I would ever want to go through that process. And I was like, and considering my lived experiences, that's too much. And so like, I don't feel like I want to go that direction with like a lot of this exploration, like there's a certain place and a certain sweet spot or balance for me.
And it's changed over the years, but I've had to kind of like slowly through trial and error I always joke that everyone that I know who's like a psychic or a medium is basically just like they're a researcher and they're like a data gatherer.
They basically are just going through a process over and over and seeing what happens and keeping track of it. They're the most researched people I know. Like they're like [01:17:00] spirit scientists. You know, they're going through and they're like, what did I do in this situation? How did it work? What happened? Should I replicate that? Like they're basically going through the scientific method, but with beings of other dimensions.
[01:17:15] Liliana Perez: Yeah.
[01:17:17] Zaneta: And, and so I love what you said, though, circling back about, Not everyone has to do this work. Not everyone is called to do this work in this way. And similarly, like artistically, you know, that collaboration is also a choice that that way that you collaborate and when and how, and to what extent, like, , are you channeling through your voice? Are you, only, you know, allowing a piece of the essence of this spirit to come through for an hour? Are you saying, okay, I'm going to, spend an evening just seeing what comes through art making with my grandmother? What and how and when? Those are all variables that are [01:18:00] a choice.
[01:18:01] Liliana Perez: That's the beautiful thing about arts. Like we just don't think about it too much. Just do it, do what feels good and like play with different things. Cause I think that's the other thing for folks who are wanting to dabble into spirit art, like every spirit is going to be different too.
Some might want you to work with clay or paint or whatever modality, and again, back to the, like, You don't have to work with Spirit if you don't want to if you see them like you, you don't like a privilege for both on both ends, right, just because you can, and they are aware that they can talk to you or come to you doesn't mean that like, you have to work with them or work with them in the way that they would like for you to work with them.
[01:18:42] Zaneta: It has been, such an amazing gift to talk to you. The openness, the experience and expertise you have, the traveling with this work that you have done and like seeing it out, in the public, It's just like so much of a gift for us to hear about your [01:19:00] experiences.
[01:19:01] Liliana Perez: I appreciate the opportunity to even talk about it. And It's all, perfect timing, too, you know. I think this is really healing for me, also, and, like, validating of what I'm doing, and, you know, because imposter syndrome is real, and it's nice to, you know, To be able to talk to somebody about, what I do.
[01:19:23] Zaneta: I also appreciate hearing you bring in the imposter syndrome piece. Around all of this. Because I think there is a, an illusion that , when you get to be like a professional artist or you get to become a professional medium or psychic, that would just be gone. And, and one of the things that I love about talking to my friends who do all this work is it's like.
It's not that it's ever gone. It's that your relationship to how you navigate that is totally different. You become accustomed to imposter syndrome when you step into a reading for someone, you become accustomed [01:20:00] to, the nerves and the anxiety that comes with a concert and giving a concert and just.
You don't just erase all that, but there's so much more beyond that.
[01:20:13] Liliana Perez: Yeah. I think it's like the human parts of ourselves that are still like, okay, wait, hold on. Um,
[01:20:22] Zaneta: find your work? can you share a little bit about your, your Instagram, your website, what offerings you're giving right now? I just, I want people to connect with you.
[01:20:35] Liliana Perez: thank you. Folks can find my, work on my website, which is sun. With two N's and Moonstudio. com. (sunnmoonstudio.com) Or my Instagram I usually share a little bit more of like I will record my process of while I'm doing spirit art You might just have to drop the, my, my handle because I think if I say it it's gonna be confusing My handle with all of the periods, but I'm [01:21:00] usually, just those are the two places that I'm online.
It's my website and the gram
[01:21:06] Zaneta: yeah, I'll leave those as a link down below for everyone. I'll leave Liliana's Instagram handle and website so that you can like really check out the breadth of her work. And you have the Passages Oracle,
[01:21:20] Liliana Perez: Yes.
[01:21:20] Zaneta: um, that's still available for sale, right?
[01:21:23] Liliana Perez: yes, it's still available for sale online and at, milk thistle if you're down in the desert like Yucca Valley, California. Carina has, , my deck stocked there and I think if you're in, , Pittsburgh, I think they may still have some, I'm not quite sure.
But it's not just my website, but yes, I still have some available.
[01:21:45] Zaneta: this deck is incredible. It's so clear and it's accurate as fuck basically. And like, for everyone who wants a sweet deck that like is playful, but also like, we'll give it to you that I feel like [01:22:00] this deck is really, really right on. And the artwork is phenomenal. It's so joyful and take spirit into this wonderful, playful place, but You'll understand this.
[01:22:14] Liliana Perez: Always the thing that they want to get across is like playfulness and joy. And then like being able to get a message across and like it can still, you know, feel good and feel joyful, but also be like, damn, okay.
Like I hear you.
[01:22:27] Zaneta: I just also want to highlight that you have a calendar out too. That's like for pre order. And. I feel like your, your cards and your work is just like so wonderful to see in my space. I feel like it's a little bit of a protective talisman often just to kind of like look over and be like, okay, there's like Liliana's work.
Like, okay, cool. I feel a little better, feel a little more centered. this is a calendar. You've never made one right before, if I'm correct.
[01:22:58] Liliana Perez: I made one last year and [01:23:00] I scrapped it. I was like, no, this isn't like gonna work. It felt forced
at the end of it. And I like scrapped it. I'm like, I'm done. I like took it off my website and that was that.
[01:23:09] Zaneta: And so now this one you have, it's pre order, it's going to come out basically, what is it like December
[01:23:16] Liliana Perez: I'm hoping to get it out to folks by the end of November, beginning of December, , whoever places , an order.
[01:23:23] Zaneta: yeah, really,
[01:23:24] Liliana Perez: I do have other prints, too. Like, I do have some talisman prints that I'm working on right now that I'm, editing to have ready. I was inspired by, because I loved working with seven day candles, like the glass ones, like, that have all the imagery.
I'm like, I want to do something like that, especially for folks who can't burn or don't like burning, to have something like that either on their altar or just like in their home space.
[01:23:49] Zaneta: Your car, in your wallet and like anywhere that you want to like carve out sacred space and have like. A process [01:24:00] and protection. Totally. I love that idea. I mean, I'm like, have pretty serious asthma. And so burning things, my relationship with burning things has just changed so much. And having stuff that like, doesn't exacerbate that, but like actually gives me a new way to cue in and, and get deep, but without having to , Use the things that I always associated with spirit, which is like flame, smoke, incense, you know, It's challenging, but there are ways and I love that you're making that.
And then you actually do direct, like spirit art sessions, right? Is it commissioned?
[01:24:37] Liliana Perez: That's something that i'm hoping to be able to do in the future where i'm Facing someone and i'm creating something for them But sometimes it varies like how long it can take sometimes it's like as quick as like, you know 45 minutes to like three to four hours of when i'm creating a single piece So right now folks can place an order and then it can take me [01:25:00] like anywhere You Depending on like my queue, like up to 10 days to get it out, delivered to folks.
But that's a goal of mine too, to be able to like do some interpretation of like doing it live with people. But you know,
[01:25:14] Zaneta: Almost like a tattoo flash or
[01:25:16] Liliana Perez: Oh my God. Like you're so tuned in with me too, cause that is something that I'm also kind of low key, but I've shared with the public that that's my goal for next year too, is also to offer spirit tattoos.
[01:25:27] Zaneta: Oh my god, that's so cool. I mean, your work especially, I can totally see that, like, thriving. but, you know, the way that it came through for me was I saw like, you have this, language of symbols and it's not quite the oracle deck, but kind of in a way it's like those are your language of symbols as your process of doing spirit art and having that.
[01:25:52] Liliana Perez: You're so, you're just so tuned in Zanetta, like, cause I feel like when I'm practicing on the skins, the fake skins that I have, [01:26:00] that literally came to my brain when I'm like, okay, like I was doing some lines and I'm like, Oh, kind of similar to that of like what would this look like when I start working on people because I still wanted to Be really just spirit led But I also want to have some direction some foundation where so folks aren't just like covered in like whatever random Things I want to have that that guideline for myself and for spirit So yeah that was something that came up where I was like doing some things and I'm like Oh that actually that feels good for this kind of like message or that feels good for this Kind of intention.
So yeah,
[01:26:31] Zaneta: Oh my gosh, I cannot wait to see this. I mean, I can wait because it's like whatever it comes out, but I'm so excited for you.
[01:26:39] Liliana Perez: thank you
[01:26:41] Zaneta: I, always ask one last question on the show of every artist who comes on, which is what advice would you have to your younger artist self?
[01:26:51] Liliana Perez: That's such a Sweet question. Oh my god already made me want to cry I think like to keep [01:27:00] it really simple would just be like you are an artist like everything that you Do in your own way is special and like Me if I were telling her like right now i'd be like just don't listen to anybody Just do what you want to do and you are an artist.
You are everything that your little heart ever wants to be so
[01:27:22] Zaneta: Oh my gosh. I feel that just rippling in like multiple timeline directions.
[01:27:29] Liliana Perez: like so many chills right now like that to cry because
[01:27:34] Zaneta: I'm going to cry too.
[01:27:35] Liliana Perez: prompt like that was beautiful
[01:27:38] Zaneta: It is really beautiful. Oh, thank you so much, Liliana. You're such a gift. Elise
[01:27:46] Liliana Perez: you. I love you. Like I'm so glad that we, like, met all, you know, all that time ago. It's wild to think. Yeah. hmm.
[01:27:55] Zaneta: all those years ago.
[01:27:57] Liliana Perez: It's bananas.
[01:27:59] Zaneta: It's [01:28:00] so crazy. Thank you. Thank you, Liliana.
[01:28:03] Liliana Perez: Thank you.