Writer and witch Amanda Yates Garcia talks about the ecology of magic, our personal magical correspondences, ritual as listening, and the evolutionary roles that art witches play in our planetary healing and future.
Writer and witch Amanda Yates Garcia talks about the ecology of magic, our personal magical correspondences, ritual as listening, and the evolutionary roles that art witches play in our planetary healing and future.
Mentioned in this episode:
About the Guest
Amanda Yates Garcia is a writer, witch, and the Oracle of Los Angeles. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, The LA Times, The SF Chronicle, The London Times, CNN, BRAVO, as well as a viral appearance on FOX. She has led rituals, classes and workshops on magic and witchcraft at UCLA, UC Irvine, MOCA, The Hammer Museum, LACMA, The Getty and many other venues. Amanda hosts monthly moon rituals online, and the popular Between the Worlds podcast, which looks at the Western Mystery traditions through a mythopoetic lens. Her book, Initiated: Memoir of a Witch, received a starred review from Kirkus and Publisher's Weekly and has been translated into six languages.
Amanda's website: https://oracleoflosangeles.com/
Mystery Cult Substack: https://amandayatesgarcia.substack.com/
IG @oracleofla
About the Host
Zaneta (they/them) is a queer, multi Brooklyn-based sound ritualist, listening educator, nature recordist, creativity activist, tarot reader, and podcast host. At the core of their work is a deep desire to remember how to live in interconnectedness. Whether that is through meditation and connecting with the self, or in community rituals to connect to the land, Zaneta weaves sound and ritual to create experiences that transform the way participants hear and connect to the world.
In the spirit of an interconnected world, Zaneta focuses on supporting folx to make their art and express themselves fully, knowing that interconnection and interdependence are rooted in our individual wholeness and that our authentic creative expression is at the heart of that wholeness. It’s towards this collective vision that Zaneta offers channeled tarot readings for creative liberation, and offers readings to support artists in navigating their careers and projects.
To learn more about Zaneta’s work visit
Instagram @soundartmagic
Hello everyone and welcome back to the podcast. I am your host Zaneta and thank you, thank you for tuning in. It's such a joy to gather with you in this listening space, in this magical circle that we share. And today's conversation is so, so vital I think to a lot of us. And I'm really, really happy to share it, especially at this time where we're in Aquarius season.
Where the full moon in Leo happened, not just long ago. So there's like a lot of personal creative fire, but then collective transformation and collective connectivity that I think is going on and I always love, you know, Leo and Aquarius season and just those concentric circles of experience, the personal and the collective. So this conversation that I'm about to share with you feels so, so deep and resonant to those energies.
Before we get in to that conversation, I have some really huge announcements. Personal ones actually, and collective ones. The first announcement that I have is that I am premiering my grant project in March. On Friday, March 10th, my project Where Land Meets Sky: Geophonic Transmissions for the Body is going to premiere in Brooklyn, at the Grand Street Healing Project on March 10th. This is going to be really, really deep for me. It's the first time I've ever created anything of this nature and it feels extremely exciting.
Over the last several months I've been in deep ritual and recording a very specific, small patch of forest. In the lower Catskills. And that time that I've spent there during the winter months, especially has been extremely transformational for me. Many of you know, that I haven't even really been posting too much since November and in large part it's because I've been spending my hermit time in the forest, just listening. And recording and giving offerings to this space, this forest. So that kind of connection has created a collaboration, a collaborative project. And I'm going to be sharing those recordings in this grant project. Particularly recordings of icy pines, of frozen rivers. Of caves and rock pools. Of ridges and just experiencing the elements thunder, fire, wind, seismic forces. I've been recording them and experiencing how they want to be listened to how they want to be shared. You know, listening to not only the recordings themselves, but the spirits and beings that are connected to these forces and these energies. And slowly, slowly listening to how they want to be shared with human community.
So we're going to be listening to the sound essences, these songs of the forest. Together. We're going to be somatically mapping them in our bodies and working with them in our bodies as we explore the connection between body and land and elements.
And then we're going to, in the spirit of reciprocity, create an original sound piece that's going to be a Sonic offering to the land, to the elements. Which will later be played back to every river, stream, waterfall, cave, ridge in an offering of gratitude for their songs shared. So that the entire project is a full circle, reciprocal exchange of listening and transmission between community and forest.
So this is a somatic sound journey of the elements, but it's also a ritual of weaving us in sound to the forest. I'm really, really excited to share this work, to do this work. It feels really important that piece about reciprocity. And I'm really, really looking forward to listening with others.
There are a sliding scale spots available. You will have to reserve tickets ahead of time. As there are only a limited amount of spots. And every participant is going to be receiving a bottle of Moon Pool, which is a land listening essence that I crafted under the full moon and cancer at sunset with this amazing rock pool and this Ridge and this
milky quartz and sandstone and the Ravens. So it's going to be a really, really powerful, powerful essence for deep listening. I'm really, really excited to get, to finally share this project with other people. And I'm going to leave the link to purchase tickets down below. You can read more about the project on my website www.soundartmagic.com. Or you can check out my Instagram. I've been sharing a lot on Instagram about it. But Where Land Meets Sky is a project that was really gifted to me from my local tree spirits and my local forest. That was an invitation to get deeper and to explore, what can we remember about the elements that maybe is hidden in our daily lives. Especially subtle sounds, sounds where they're easily overlooked or easily masked. And how the forest's medicine, the forest's magic comes up in sound. So I hope you'll join me for that.
The next announcement that I have is that I started a sound sub stack entitled Moon Pool. And now you may notice that I've said 'Moon Pool' multiple times and that's because Moon Pool was a pretty transformational experience I had while recording at this very amazing ridge where ravens nest and where there's all these beautiful, gnarly pitch pines. And so I have is really powerful experience on the full moon in cancer. And in that experience, there was a strong call to create a listening community to share these sounds. In a way that would open up dialogue, that would open up connection to the forest and to the human community. So I created Moon Pool, which is a sub stack focused on psychic listening, somatic-sonic exploration, and forest transmissions.
Within this sub stack is a new podcast. So I already do Art Witch as, you know, as you're listening right now, but Moon Pool is its own new podcast, and this is going to be all channeled transmissions from the forest. I'm going to be recording channeling live as I'm recording these sounds and songs and essences of the forest. So that's going to be a new, special podcast and that's going to be up in my sub stack.
I'm going to be sharing a lot of topics too, a lot of writing around psychic listening, because I've been doing it for a very long time. I wish I saw more people talking about it because I think that there's a lot there that a lot of people experience, but for whatever reason, it's just not something that has gotten as much spotlight on. But when I'm talking about psychic listening, I think that there's a whole way, a whole many ways. That we receive psychic information through listening and through sounds. We talk about a lot of signs and symbology in the visual. How people will pay attention to numbers or how they'll pay attention to different things.
But I actually experience a lot of psychic information just through the communications of sounds. And there's a huge personal language that I've developed with spirit around listening that I feel like is worth sharing with others and worth talking about. So I'm going to be sharing a lot of experiences, a lot of thoughts around psychic listening.
Obviously everything that is psychic is connected to the body. And I think this is something that like, Where Land Meets Sky and my work in general has been getting to the heart of, is the body as the site of all connection, right?
If that's listening, if that's psychic information, if that's, how we connect to each other in pleasure. If that's like the care that we show others and the care that we show ourselves. There's everything, you know, happening at the nexus of the body. So there will be a lot of somatic and Sonic exploration.
And then in terms of forest transmissions, a lot of the work that I do is ritual with the land. Ritual with the rivers ritual with the wind, with the Pines. Like I do a lot of ritual before I ever record anything. I do a lot of long listening. Sometimes I don't even bring my recorder. And I think that that way of starting things has precipitated into a very spiritual experience or a very spirit conversation that happens when I'm out and recording. So I'm going to be recording the sounds and the sound essences. Because I really think that that's what happens when I'm out there, there's a collaborative communication that's happening. And. River will say, okay, please start recording now. And I will. And then when I do that, I go back and I listen and I feel into those recordings and they have a particular magic to them. A particular medicine that is meant to be shared with others, which I think is what essences are. When you have a flower essence. When you have a land essence, when you have a gemstone or crystal essence.
Like what's being shared is not what the human filter and perception and will determines, but it's really the spirit. The essence of a particular place, a particular waterway wants to share with us and it's unique and it's special to that moment. And also to the individual's connection who gets a chance to receive that medicine.
So these sound essences that I'm going to be sharing in this Moon Pool sound sub stack. These are going to be recordings, essentially that are going to invite you to receive a particular magic or medicine from the forest. And so I'm very excited to share those with you. I will leave the link to subscribe to moon pool. So I hope you will join me there. And without further ado. Here's today's conversation.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the podcast. Today I am really, really thankful for getting a moment, getting a beat to chat with Amanda Yates Garcia, someone who I've been following her work, you know, for a while and very, very inspired even to just podcast and to join the public witch world.
Amanda has just been such a wonderful force to be connected to and witness all the things that she's created and shared and how this community of Art witches has really grown with her work.
So Amanda is a writer, a witch, and also known as the Oracle of Los Angeles. Her work has been featured in the New York Times, the LA Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, the London Times, as well as a viral appearance on Fox. And she's led rituals, classes, workshops on magic and witchcraft at UCLA, UC Irvine, Moca, and many other venues. Welcome, Amanda.
Zaneta thank you so much for having me. I'm really thrilled to be here with you.
Aw. Thank you so, so much for being here. I feel like your work has inspired me so, so much. I obviously, like many people connected to your work when you had Strange Magic and then I got super into your book Initiated and slowly felt my world kind of opening, getting into other artists and finding other witches, and it was just such a wonderful confluence of community that I feel like has been birthed through that initial seed of finding your work. So I wanna thank you for just, the courage and the way that you really do share. So thank you.
Oh, thank you so much for, for joining me on this ride. It's been really, it's been really fun to, to meet all the other art witches out there and to travel through the, the bright night skies together on our broomsticks
That's so great. Yeah, it's it's really interesting cuz like, usually when I have a guest come on the podcast, we start with Journey. And I know that I've read your book and I've gotten a chance to really experience how you wanted to share your journey. But I'd love it if you would circle us in a little bit on your journey with making art and with making magic.
Yeah, well, so I started, my mother is a witch and so I grew up practicing witchcraft, but then in my late teens, I left that practice not completely, like, I still, you know, read tarot and did my own spells and rituals and things, but I I didn't really think, oh, I'm gonna go become a, like a professional witch.
My mother was, I would say like a community witch. So she attended births and you know, led marriage ceremonies and croning ceremonies and you know, had a coven that she met with every full moon and would celebrate public holidays and priestess for the wheel of the year and stuff.
But she wasn't paid for that work. And I think that that was for two reasons. One of which was, you know, I think that the work of witches and the work of healers, caregivers of all kinds is often undervalued and not paid for. and you know, I think people often think well, You know, this work should be free.
It's, you know, community care and that is true. But if you're devoting all of your time to it, like you need to be in reciprocity for that, or people need to treat you in reciprocity for that. And since the way that in our culture, we often do that is through money than it's really necessary to do, because otherwise, like your priest is, is gonna be broke and she's gonna be worried about paying her rent and not being able to put food on the table or whatever.
So that was part of it. But then also my mom has, you know, various issues relating to her early life and, you know, family abuse and everything. So it, it's very hard for her to ask for support. So the way that affected me as a child was I saw her doing all of this community care work, really beautiful and special, but I also saw her exhausted and burnt out and not able to participate or kind of be with me in the way that I really felt like I needed as a child in some ways.
And so I just kind of rejected all of that and decided that I was going to go into arts.
So I got my undergrad in dance. I got my graduate degrees in writing and film and video. But the film and video work that I did was mostly video installation. And, I did a lot of various kinds of writing in my mfa. So I was really immersed in the world of arts, the arts for my twenties, basically. But then when I got out of grad school, been in grad school, I made a lot of kind of angry work against capitalism, against colonialism, white supremacy, patriarchy, et cetera. And I, I realized when I got out of school that it's easy enough to kind of point out what you don't like about the world And say this is wrong.
And I think that that's a really important part of our process coming into our own voices as artists is, the realization that the world could be different. And the fact that it isn't is harming people, however, . It also is kind of an abdication of responsibility because you're kind of pointing out all the things that you think are wrong and then saying, someone else needs to fix this because this is really not working.
And I realized that what I really needed to do, if I wanted to live the way that I believed was to claim, to put a stake in the ground and say, okay, this is the vision that I see for what the world, could be, and I'm going to create that in the world, rather than just pointing out what's wrong.
So I wanted to have a vision of what I believed in, And then I wanted to work towards that vision. And that was when I remembered or went back to witchcraft because I realized that I wanted to live in an enchanted world. And for me, enchantment is about the sacred, it's about connection between all life forms, including the stones, the earth, the trees, the animals, all the plants, all the fungi, all the people, all the more than human beings that exist, throughout the plural verse.
And the way that I knew to approach that was through witchcraft. And so then I started to hold public rituals. But initially I I saw it as artwork. And that I anticipated that people would respond to it as, not an aesthetic contemplation, but certainly a performance that would initiate aesthetic contemplation.
But because that's how I understood art at the time. And since that time I've really renegotiated what I think art is and what I think art could do. So I'm a lot more heretical to the art world now than I was at that time because I was just emerging from grad school, which is, you know, an institutionalized form, um, in understanding of the arts that is based in, you know, tradition and history and lineage and um, canon and all that stuff.
And so as I started to do these public rituals, I really started to make a name for myself doing that. And at that time there weren't that many people doing that kind of work. and it was kind of considered an outre thing in the art world because spirituality was not something that was really embraced.
in the art world, which was kind of way more conceptual at the time, and modernist in the sense that it was about materialism and, you know, objects. And we could go into that forever. But, so then people, people started asking me to do this work privately, um, because it has a powerful effect on people and they could see that it was transformative.
And so I started to do that, and then I started to flesh that out and realize that the thing that I was looking for in the arts I could find in witchcraft in the sense that I could build a life for myself where I was doing exactly what I wanted to be doing, talking about what I wanted to talk about, working with people in a way where I felt like there was a real bond and relationality And contact connection with their lives, with what was meaningful to them in their lives.
And that I would also be doing something that was meaningful to me and that I could support myself doing that. Whereas, you know, in the art world or as a, you know, performance artist, that's not so much the case. It's not easy to support yourself in that way, and you end up being very beholden to institutions, grants, you know, you're kind of mandated to sell objects a lot of the time and, um, that wasn't really where I was coming from with my work.
So, I was very lucky to be able to blend what I was doing with my art practice and the stuff that I was doing and am still doing in, you know, museums and gallery settings. And then to be able to actually make a good living out of my practice as a public witch as well. So I think everybody comes to that work in different ways.
There's no clear path. It's not like you, you know, get out of school and then get a BFA in witchcraft and then , you know, do an apprenticeship and now you're a witch. It's just like everybody has to kind of cut their own path through the jungle there. So, I don't know if that answers your question. It's kind of a roundabout answer maybe.
It's beautiful. I thought you just touched on so many things that felt deeply, deeply resonant, just the realities of the art world and interfacing with the art world and like what actual impact or connection you're really getting to the heart of. It's so powerful to hear how you kind of started to, to sense that for yourself and take that different path or, say, you know, let me go in this direction and try this.
And I think that there is something about that, that for this community, especially because so many of us have been through either conservatory or art school or some kind of institutionalized, formal education or something that there's a lot of, false sense of, clear path that, comes with that. And also knowing yourself and grounding and knowing why you do things.
I just recently read Active Hope, that Joanna Macy book, and I was just jamming so hard on that over the winter break
yeah, I, I'm, I love her work so much. I haven't read that one, but she kind of says the same things over and over in different ways. So I feel like I may have a sense of what she gets at at that book, but I love her work so much.
yeah, what you're talking about, you got into like your vision of what you wanted to see, in the world, and then we're like, okay, I'm gonna work towards this vision. And I love that, that yeah, there's no predetermined or, you know, premeditated path per se, but the, the clarity is still pretty there in, and even in its windiness.
I think in our culture, either you choose your path or it's chosen for you. And a lot of the time we don't even realize the degree to which it's chosen for us because as artists we think, oh, well I'm taking the road less traveled here, I'm doing the outsider thing. Because it doesn't feel like you're an insider really when you're an artist, because, it's such a high risk venture and there's certainly no guarantee that you'll be able to support yourself with it. And you know, if you tell people that you're an artist, so like a dinner party or something, or you know, if you could go home for the holidays and speak to family members about it, they're gonna be like, oh, how nice.
That's, I've always wanted to do that, but of course I couldn't because I needed to make a living or whatever. And yet, even within the art world, there's this expectation that you're going to do it in a certain way, which is actually really, I think, hard on young people when they get out of art school because they think that it's gonna happen in a certain way.
There's like this idea that you get your MFA and then you. , you know, maybe show at like artist-run galleries, and then you get picked up by a gallery and then, you know, you're just jamming , you know, you're just making your money and making your work. And maybe you'll get a teaching job too.
But, you know, that's just, that's one way of doing it. But if that's your expectation, it is very easy to feel forlorn or left out, or like, you're not doing it right if it's not happening for you in that way. But I really believe that there are many paths to living the beautiful life that we envision for ourselves.
And I think as witches also, you know, if we envision something for ourself, then we envision that for the world. So we're not just hoping for our own abundance or doing spells for our own abundance, but doing spells for the abundance of all, or you know, not just doing spells for our own liberation and freedom, but for the liberation and freedom of all.
Yeah, I think my practice as a witch and my practice as an artist are very much interwoven together. And the more that I understand that witchcraft is about having a clear intention of what you want to create and then having the agency to create that is really the same process as art. Right? Like an artist also has an intention to do something, to create something, to make something, where there wasn't anything. And then they bring it into reality by co-creating or collaborating with whatever, materials they're working with or whatever, even immaterial fragments that they're working with, such as like mythologies or stories or, you know, artistic lineages or even if they're working in like music or sounds, whatever it is, they have a vision and then they are calling it forth, which I feel like is the same process as magic.
Oh God, I love that so, so much. That's just a beautiful way of putting it cuz I often feel like there are so many parallels to even like being a terror reader, I feel a lot of parallels to like my improvisatory practice and, you know, the act of doing divination or something. That there's the tapping into something being so fully present and like expressing that through, the entirety of what I bring. I often don't feel a difference between reading and improvising. Like I play percussion and so oftentimes have all these instruments and like, Well, I have all these cards. What difference really is there in terms of the tools? And I just love how you're talking about These, fragments and, and all these things coming in together in a witchcraft practice. And then also like in an artistic practice that's just so, so damn beautiful.
A lot of what I'm saying also has like a historical basis in the sense that, you know, during the enlightenment there was a split between, sacred and secular and body and mind. And that is where the sort of realist tradition really started to take root and the enchanted world really took refuge in the arts, like for instance, in romanticism, et cetera, and the folkloric traditions, at least I'm talking about like the western canon. I'm not as familiar with other lineages of art, but so magic and the arts have always been connected. So for instance, like the first theaters, at least in, in Europe, were at the Temples of Asclepius
so the theater of Dionysus who is, you know, one of the patron dieties of witchcraft, you know, the god of ecstasy and the wild and, intoxication and the night and this, you know, very much linked with like Pan and the devil and all these other, you know, witchy ideas. So the Theater of Dionysus was in the temple of Asclepius who's the God of healing.
So theater and healing, magic ritual have their roots, you know, thousands of years in the making. And certainly if you look at traditional cultures around the world, like indigenous cultures, there's usually not a word for art. And there's usually not a word for religion because they're the way that you live your life.
And they're practices that are doing multiple things. They are, you know, creating cultural identity. They are, helping us heal, helping us know ourselves, helping us know each other, helping us relate to the world around us, and stay connected to that world. They have a function of making, sacralizing or making sacred our relationship with the more than human world.
So, during the enlightenment, and I think probably, you know, many hundreds of years leading up to the enlightenment when there was this, you know, split between spirit and matter. Then the world of Enchantment goes into the arts where there was like a flame that was still lit, you know, came, tended by the artists of the world.
And now that flame is seeping back out into the world. And I think that that is often through the work of women femes and queer people in the arts. because when I first started doing this magical work, it was something that very much women were interested in, but that is why it wasn't considered interesting to the sort of hegemonic powers of the art world, was because it, it wasn't on brand for the art world, right?
Which was way more like interested in this kind of, machismo art, bad boy way of looking at, production essentially. yet, if you look around, you know, even for the past like hundred years when you see magic or witchcraft in the arts, it's usually by queer people, femes, and women.
Those are the people who are then bringing that, connection to that lineage out back into the world. Also, of course, you know, people of color who come from like diasporic traditions and who are making work, rooted in their own traditional heritages, which were often called witchcraft by, Christianity or colonialist powers. So I just think that that's an interesting aspect of, what we're doing today as art witches is that we are actually continuing a lineage from long ago.
And then also exactly as you said, making it really relevant to what is going on right now in our community, in the land that we walk on and, you know, breathe the air of and tend to, or not every day.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. You know, so much of what you were bringing up just makes me think about the ideas of the very common magical correspondences or kind of you know, this is what you do at this moon and this is what you do at this time.
And this is, you know, like a lot of of like kind of tried and true bandied about concepts of witchcraft and ritual that circulate , especially in the online sphere. I always think about, you know, magic as being ritual, especially being local and being personal, being cultural, like being very rooted in the ecology the spiritual ecology of time and place and land.
I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, these kind of maybe more generalized ideas around, magical correspondences or ritual or things that we have started to take as like, this is the way you do things, but then also cultivating the personal, the specific, the local in one's, witchcraft practice.
Yeah, that is such a great question. Such an important question. Um, first of all, I think one of the reasons why these so atrophied ritual ideas like, this is how you do a ritual, or this is what this moon means, or this plant corresponds to this gem corresponds to this tarot card, or whatever. The reasons why that appeals to people is because it's very difficult to create something from scratch.
This is something all artists know. Certainly as a writer, I feel like, I mean, I am a writer, so maybe I'm biased, but I do feel like writing is one of the hardest art forms to do because you're really, you're just squeezing blood from stone, right? Like you're, you're pulling something out of nothing. And the first draft for me is always the hardest because I just have to make a lot of words out of nowhere, out of my own head.
And I feel like at least when you're a painter or. You know, working with materials, you can at least work with those materials. But like when you're a writer, you're just working with your own mind anyway the reason that I'm mentioning this is because having rules, having traditions, having correspondences that we can turn to makes it a lot easier in a culture where we often don't have a lot of time. We are certainly cut off from all our traditions and lineages. We don't know what it means to have a ritual or why we would do that. You know, we've often just been told this is how you do things. Like if we were raised in Christian families or any other, you know, major religion without necessarily understanding why we do it. And so a lot of the time it can be really helpful to have these really basic things that we learn on Instagram. Like, you know, ground and center, cast a circle, call in the deities, do your candle magic and then give offerings, close the circle, and that's that. Because thinking of a new way of doing it every time or a really fresh and authentic way of doing it can be really hard.
We also are extremely cut off from the land that we live on and often don't really have a relationship with it. And not only that, in general, we don't know how to have relationships because the whole history of colonialism, which started, many thousands of years ago, but really kicked off on a whole new level during the, you know, age of exploration, quote unquote.
The whole project of that was to sever people from the land, from their relationships, from their lineages, from their histories. And that took place in Europe and to the peasant people of Europe. And then that was exported right around the world, and everybody was forced to also be expropriated from their lands, cut off from their traditions.
So a lot of the time these things that we're seeing on Instagram, about like, this is how you do a ritual like at a pink candle and, you know, say Venus three times or whatever is really a vestige of the colonial disconnect from our understanding of what ritual really is and can be. And so it's an important place to start.
But the thing is about relationships and exactly as you said, you know, magic is rooted in the world around us. It's sensual, so that means it's rooted in the air that we breathe, which comes from the trees where we live. It's rooted in the waters that nourish us, that come from someplace on the land where we live.
It's about, you know, the fire that comes from the sun that nourishes those plants and that hits our face every day. It's a sensory thing that is embedded in the material world, but we don't know how to have relationships a lot of the time, like I was saying with, you know, that idea of reciprocity earlier. Often we don't know how to be in reciprocity because it's been reinforced to us so much that like the way that we exchange energy is like through money or there's a sense of obligation or a sense of entitlement or ownership or whatever.
But relationships take time to build and it takes time to know the other. It's often a very confusing process. People have a romantic idea of what it might be like to know the trees in your area, for instance. And maybe they'll expect that they know the tree, like they would know their friend, be able to speak to the tree, like they would be able to speak to the friend, often that's implied and that that's often what we expect. But the thing is, trees don't speak in English. Trees don't speak in the same way that humans do, but that doesn't mean that they don't speak. But we haven't been taught to hear that language or pay attention to that language, even though they're speaking all the time.
We often don't see it. But they're speaking in scent, they're speaking in texture, they're speaking in subtle movement. They're speaking in subtle changes over time. They're rooting their poems into the earth and releasing it as like pheromones from their roots.
So really the way that we connect to ritual in our world is through paying close attention. And that's what ritual's asking us to do is to slow down so that we can do that. And it's also helping us rebuild a relationship to ourselves. And this is something that you discover too after doing a lot of ritual and ceremony on your own is, you know, magic works when you have a real experience, when you are able to generate real emotion, when you are deeply connected to the spirit world, which is the world of your imagination, and you are the conduit between that spirit world and the material world around you, so that you're the place of inner penetration. You know, you are the threshold as a witch.
So, how do you do that? How do you become that? How do you enter into those times of spirit flight or the in between times? How do you become a space between the worlds? That is what takes practice. So yes, you can work with a candle and carve your name in it or whoever's name in it. You can chant, you can, you know, pass fire around your house. You can, create a doll. You can, you know, say a magic rhyme. But if you're not finding that place of connection within yourself, then you're not really quite there yet, with your magic.
It's a beginning and the only way to get there is through practice. No one can do it for you. There's no book that you can read that can teach you how to do it in anymore than there's a book that can teach you how to play guitar or can teach you how to paint or sing. Like the only way to do it is through doing it. Like you could read a book about singing, but if you don't practice, then you're not going to learn.
And similarly, like you can't know the land unless you connect with it, unless you spend time with it. Unless you go into it. Unless you sit there and struggle through trying to get to know it. You can't really read about it in a book. You can learn things about it, but it's really an embodied experience and ritual is something that really helps us slow down and do that. And not only that, but we're demarcating a time where that's all we're doing. Because in our culture, we're often trying to multitask. So we're washing dishes and we're listening to a podcast, or we're driving and we're talking on the phone to our mother or we're gardening, but we're also like listening to an educational YouTube And during ritual, we're really devoting or dedicating ourselves to that connection with spirit. And by spirit, I'm speaking about the material world and the world of the imagination and that inter penetrated place.
But just like we can't practice guitar and write an email at the same time, we're not gonna get anywhere in either one. We have to use our attention as you know, Mary Oliver says, as a form of devotion. And so magic witchcraft is a way of focusing our attention on the things that we value in our devoted to whatever that might be in that moment. I feel like there's a lot more that could be said about that, but I would love to hear what you're thinking.
I'm just, I'm basking in that I'm loving everything that you shared, cuz I do think
that there's, just highlighting. You know that you're that space between the worlds and like when we're practicing ritual, when we're practicing witchcraft, it's in a practice of self, it's development of self in many ways and being available, like the self being available for what already exists.
Yeah, exactly. It's like a way of shedding too, because like I said earlier, if we don't choose our path, and it's chosen for us and it's chosen for us by our parents and our school teachers and our culture. and, you know, the United States and Uncle Sam and all whatever chooses how we think, how we feel, what kind of relationships we think we should have, what kind of future we think we should have, what we should study, what we should spend our day doing.
And even down to this like shortest moment of our day, like our attention is being commanded. Even when we're on the toilet, we're like scrolling and um, you know, giving our attention over to, uh, capitalist forces essentially. And so the practice of magic is a practice of reclaiming one's body for one's own.
The lineage that I come from my mother comes from is the lineage of reclaiming, which is a west coast tradition rooted in many other traditions. But I think that that word reclaiming is really important because it's not really like we're pulling something out of nothing.
Like you emerged from the body of the goddess, you know, you emerged, you were co-created by all the beings that participated in your emergence, and you've become this magnificent thing. There's only one of, and the life force knows what it wants you to do, and you will know that when you can contact what in ceremonial magic is called your true will. But essentially what that is, is your true desire that is uncorrupted by the forces of colonialism, essentially by the forces of kyriarchy or capitalism that are telling you, oh, this is the kind of relationship you want. This is the kind of job you want. These are your options. You can have like red, white, or blue and that's what's available to you. And then it's presenting you this illusion of choice. Like you can have red, white, or blue, so you're like, well, I choose blue because I'm like kooky. Like that . But it's limiting what you're even allowed to see or like it's limiting your options. And yet inside of you, you already know what to do, what you want, who you are, because those desires arise spontaneously in you the same way that spring comes spontaneously to the land.
Nobody has to force that to happen. Nobody has to make it happen. Nobody has to make squirrels save nuts. The land knows what it wants and it wants through you and it wants you to do a specific thing. And for artists, I mean, artists are important to the ecology of the world because artists expand or help us return to the possibility of the imagination.
It's only through the imagination that we can transform, we won't do anything if we can't imagine that other things are possible for us. And artists are the ones who are helping us process death, love, longing, our relationship to the deities, our understanding of what is sacred. Our ability to ask the question why, why anything. Our relationships to space, our relationships to place like artists are people who are devoting themselves to understanding this and sharing that with the world and to creating new possibilities of what can even be thought or experienced.
and it's not just for the heck of it. Like, well, let's just see what new thing we can come up with. But it's it's ecological in the sense that it's, it's evolutionary, and by evolutionary I mean, it's responding to the environment that we're in. So evolution isn't just like God trying to get us from an ape to like, Alien creature.
It's not just like homo erectus or whatever. Like we were started off as a flea and now we're a human. it's about the organism responding to the field, the ecology that it's embedded in so that life can continue in that place. And all the organisms kind of singing, dancing together in this, you know, folk festival dance that is a place.
So the artists are the ones who are helping us respond to all of these very complex, intricate things that are going on in our ecology and our ecologies are not quote unquote wild spaces that are, you know, pristine, untouched by human hands. And obviously they've never been that, So now our ecologies are interpenetrated with technology, with various class structures, with various cultural influences, materials that are completely made by human hands.
So artists are also processing all of this. And one of the reasons that they can do that is because their whole practice is one of yes and right. It's the ability to hold multiple conflicting ideas at the same time. Like that's our job. And I also see that as the witch's job. You know, the witches, the liminal person, the dweller of in between spaces. So it's just, you know, essentially a different word for the same thing. I mean, obviously there are variations. I feel like witches are often about shifting reality in a very specific way. And artists are often about working with very specific materials. But overall, I think they're, approaching the same project.
So I feel like the idea of an artist or an art witch working with their ecology or working with the materials that are in the land, it's not just about the materials that are in the land, it's about the relationship that you have to everything around you. . And if that's like Pez dispensers at your CVS store, then that's what it is because that is what's around you. But it's about who you're choosing to have a relationship with. For instance, I have a relationship with the jacaranda trees in my yard with the camphor trees in my yard with the lemon balm that I planted, with the sage that I planted here, and also with the concrete and the asphalt in my street and all sorts of other things.
And so we're really here to reweave these webs of connection, reweave these webs of relationship, so that our entire ecology can benefit from that intimacy that we're establishing.
It brings to mind also ideas about. Who we create for, you know, there's an album that I really loved and I didn't love the process of it being recorded, like who recorded it, but there's an album, if you ever get a chance to check it out, it's called music for the Gods.
And it's like ceremonial gamelan music from like the 19, I think thirties or twenties. It's like way back in the day recorded of course by like a white guy, Colin McPhee or whoever. But the music is incredible, but it's music that wasn't necessarily for people, or wasn't necessarily with the idea that like, human ears were going to be the receivers of this magic. And I think a lot about when we , especially so many of art witches are like land artists and things like that. The idea of creating for the non-human community and the idea of like our art or our ritual or our work, like widening the field of who receives it or who we are offering it to. I'd love to hear if you have any thoughts about that.
I love that question so much. It's so beautiful. Yeah. I think that that gets to what I was saying about how capitalism is Like you can have red, white, or blue, and that's kind of in the art world as well. Like, you can be a sculptor, you can be a painter, you can, you know, draw, and then you sell it in a gallery.
Like that's how you do it. Those are the options that are available to you And in each of those circumstances, like the people that you're making the art for are you know, institutions, like maybe a museum will buy your work or maybe like a rich person will buy your work and, you know, keep in their house or in their, you know, collection like boxed up in like a temperature controlled space. Or maybe you're doing public artworks and you know, you're painting a mural on the wall, or, you know, doing a sculptor that appears in, uh, a plaza somewhere. But even then, you're being commissioned by an institution, right? So the options are, you get commissioned by institutions are rich people, . Like, that's your option, that's your audience, that's who you're doing this for.
But that's not true. We know that that's not who we're doing the work for. And a lot of the time, we have this longing to make work just to, you know, if we're, like, let's say we're creating songs for a tree in our yard and it's just about establishing a relationship with that being, to me, that is just as valuable and just as worthwhile, if not more so because it's actually benefiting you and the tree and the entire ecology directly by.
Pleasure, expanding your capacity to have intimacy with the world around you, and, uh, creating a new relationship. And then also the more you have a relationship or the more we as a culture have relationship with the land, the less likely we are to destroy it or to think nothing of like uprooting that being or, um, harming it in some way.
But the trouble is of course, that most of us know that and want to do that, especially if we're in the arts. We're artists, we're witches. Like we want to relate to the land and we want to, devote our practices to strengthening our community And strengthening bonds of intimacy between one another. And yet we also have to try and find ways to make a living.
And most of us want to do that in a way that. Suck. That doesn't like eat up all our time in energy and make us miserable until we're 65 or later and we can finally retire and, you know, maybe go play golf or whatever we wanna do . You know? So I think, there's our desire to do that. And some of us have the, um, the grit to refuse, to capitulate, to what other people want of us or what, you know, capitalism demands of us and will do our work in the way that we want.
But then there is a cost for that. Often we're significantly punished and penalized for that. And then people who do capitulate, they might get scorn from the rest of the artistic community, but they're also lauded and celebrated and given awards and given grants and, um, able to do what they wanna do So I don't think there's any way that we can say which one is, is better, and I think we should all be really compassionate towards one another and, that we're all struggling to do this thing that's very, very difficult to do. And, you know, we have a lot of enemies, so I feel like we need to be of support to one another and, you know, practice mutual aid and, and enable each other to be able to live the lives of beauty that we want to see created in the world.
What do you think about, all of that? Like what do you think about like the audience and who we're making our work for, is that right?
Yeah, well, I think a lot about where songs come from where we think songs come from. And I've gotten a chance to listen to a lot of different places and listen to a lot of different music from a lot of different indigenous cultures and communities. And you know, I think about the songs are always from the land. Like every song that has ever ever been brought into existence started from the land.
So, you know, like to what end or to what means or who will receive and like what that cycle of transmission and receiving, beaming and listening, beaming and listening. It just I think it gives me a lot of sensing the wider field of what it means to put a piece out into the world.
Yes, I, I love what you just said so much. I think it's so true that music comes from the land. It comes from the material world, right? It's like a collaborative thing that emanates from what we know is reality. I think like all of the universe is essentially a song is music. I think that's the way beings communicate spirit to one another.
And, I think by being aware of that, we can do it even more beautifully and even more purposefully and pleasurably by realizing that we can. I think that's a really big part of what witchcraft is and what art is. I think you really start to become, I guess, a real witch, for lack of a better term, or like a real artist, when you realize that you can do what you want, that you can. create work for and to the land, and that the land is speaking through you and that you don't need to go to a book or get a permission from your teacher, like your sculpture 1 0 1 teacher , or whatever that, you can listen to what comes from within you and you can listen to what the who are around you or who are in chorus with you want, and then you can do that.
You don't have to just do what you're told and that being able to listen, that is the real skill I think, of both being a witch and, and being an artist because the land is singing to us all the time. But we're not all always able to hear it. And it's the same in our relationships, right? Like we might have a, a partner, they're always communicating to us, but often we can't hear what they're communicating to us, or we're not receiving the messages.
We also have that relationship with our family. Like we're always communicating our needs with our family or who we are with our family, but they're not always able to receive that message because there's like a membrane of disconnection. It like a kind of iron wall that has been erected by colonialism that keeps us all unable to hear each other, unable to connect, like how modern forests, you know, managed forests the trees are no longer able to communicate with one another. Their mycelial networks have been cut. So they're essentially rendered mute. And we have, we have become like that. But when we become real artists or real witches is when we remember that we can communicate and start reaching out, start reaching our mycelial networks out beneath that iron curtain and growing towards the roots of the other beings in our world.
And the reason that I feel a little reluctant to say like real artists is because that has a connotation of gatekeeping. Like you're not a real artist. But I don't mean it like that. I mean it like, There is a truth that we can reach within ourselves that we don't know is there a lot of the time. And it's a practice because it's not always something that we can reach.
It's not, certainly not something I can always reach. That's why, for instance, I will fall back on a lot of the things that even I've created. Like sometimes I will, I'll be like, I don't know what to do for this ritual. And then I'll just go look at something that I wrote like a year ago or two years ago or whatever, and I'll think, thank goodness that I wrote that because I forgot I could do that.
It kind of brings it back to, What we were talking about magical correspondences or like, more common ritual practices or like a witchcraft, you know, 1 0 1 or something like that. We can kind of reconnect to those things in times where remembrance fails us , we always have the capacity to listen. We always have the capacity to connect. It's just not always like, as accessible for whatever reason. There are many
Yeah.
And we don't need to take it personally or pathologize it to just understand that this is like what we're living through. I mean, I was talking with someone earlier today in a reading and, and I was like, if you're here at this time in this place with this world in ecological grief and crisis, like there is no template honey bun , like, there's no template. So we're really, we're really all trying our best and and fucking up a lot. And also having to rely on things that maybe, you know, maybe, our ideologies of really being connected to the land and really being of the earth and like yada yada yada would be, but, but maybe that's not always there for us, and that's okay.
Yeah. I mean, what we're living through right now is so hard and so confusing, and there's really just no precedent for the simultaneity of it all, like ecological collapse, like technology increasing its speed and elaboration exponentially like every year, of the state and all of this stuff that's happening simultaneously. We really don't know how to respond to this as organisms. So exactly as you say, we are just kind of muddling along.
And I think that's one of the reasons why it's good that there are as many art witches as possible, because it's not work that we can do alone. You know, we have to help each other and support each other and, create together and build on each other's ideas. And it's not about this model of like ownership, where we're like, oh, this is my thing.
I'm the art witch, and now everybody else has to go find another idea. But more like we are the art witches we're doing something that is necessary for the ecology of the world, and it knows better than we do what that is because, you know, the earth knows what it's doing. Even if we can't see that, but the only way that we can live out what her imperatives are or, or if we follow the desires that we listen to, and the hard part is knowing which one is ours and which one is imposed upon us by the oligarchy, you know?
Yes, yes. I think you've hit something. So, so vital, you've really struck the nerve right there, , like that discerning the difference of what is like the aliveness of the multiness the aliveness of the earth, like singing through you and what is programming , what is like the over culture?
What you were saying kind of towards the earlier part of the conversation actually speaks a lot to this, that there is no preconceived or premeditated path to that knowing. And that lived wisdom that one starts to develop through listening, through trying, through practice, through like, you know, I think this is like where we see different forms of learning in indigenous communities like that are not like of the written texts.
They are oral, they are lived, they are practice, they are working and they are need based, like, they are essential and vital to existence. I always talk to folks about when you call the elements, have you lived and depended upon the elements? Have you lived and depended upon like that thing that you really are calling in? Because I think there's something there about that that changes the tone of everything. That changes the tone of that relationship And that kind of quality of what magic can mean, in such an important way. And that sense of knowing really hits differently.
Totally. And I mean, of course the answer to that question has always gotta be yes. Right? Like, have you depended on water? Yes. , have you depended on air? Yes, you have. Have you depended on Earth? Yes. You know, have you depended on heat, on warmth of fire? Yes, you have. Because of the way that our society is structured, we forget that so easily, right?
We just turn on the tap and there it is. You know, we're entitled to it. It's just right there for us. But, you know, during this times of drought, thinking about, well, what if I turn on the tap and it's just not there? Then what do I do? I think we all were confronted with stories like that during the, height of quarantine where, you know, I went to the grocery store and things that I ordinarily buy weren't there. And you know, there was a run on bottled water. And I was imagining like, what if this disease is way more intense than it even turned out to be?
And like, there's nobody to run like the Department of Water and Power or something. And thinking about then what happens. And because we live in such abundance and privilege in this country, we don't even realize that we could turn on the tap and the water not be there one day. And it is very sacred and we should know where it comes from.
And as the Buddha say, we should know how it comes to us.
You know, it's wild that you mentioned that because my mom is actually a water quality specialist in the city of Glendale, like in California. So like as you're talking about that, I'm like, I kind of do know where your water comes from and who supports your water getting there,
And I do feel you, I love that you're bringing that in. There is always that kind of like we are depending on one another, whether or not we're able to remember that.
Yeah, absolutely we are And also I think it's important to remember that. Magic is relationship. It is intimacy with the world. And so if you go to that rando little museum that's like the Waterworks Museum of Los Angeles or something, like you are doing witchcraft because you were, you are forming intimate bonds like you are learning where your water comes from. If you learn about the wind, what direction it blows where it comes from.
We should all be thinking about that because one of the dangers of climate change, particularly on the east coast, along the Atlantic, is that the Gulf Stream could stop, the way that the oceans are heating could stop the Gulf Stream, which is a stream of wind that blows from the Caribbean up to essentially around England or Norway. And it's like bringing rain, it's bringing storms, is clearing the air. It's making it so that we're not just mired in like 130 degree heat all the time on the Eastern coast. and if that stops, then we'll really know air in a different way. You know, we should appreciate it while it's here and knowing how our air comes to us, knowing that it's this collaborative effort between, you know, the plankton and the Caribbean and all sorts of other things.
Really makes us want to honor the web of life, the web of the wyrd that creates this world. And I think that's why a lot of indigenous communities are always singing to the land and doing dances for the spirits of the land. Because by doing that, we create a sacred relationship. If we don't do those things it's easy to forget that the relationship that we have with those, places beings, materials are sacred.
Yeah. I really feel this a lot. In my own creative, magical practice, a lot of the time it's singing to the forest where it's, you know, creating work that will be played to the water, to the river that flows both ways.
Yeah. And it feels like magic is a practice of relationship tending. It is what keeps you dancing with the dynamic world that we exist in. and It's always weird to me to even ever think that there's an otherness, that there's some kind of separation between what this existence is as human and the aliveness of everything that we exist with.
I know.
it's so fucking weird.
I think it's amazing because like children are by nature animist, right? like they see everything as alive. They see everything as numinous. I remember like talking to my erasers and pencils in my desk and like putting them next to each other because I didn't want them to be lonely and stuff like that.
Like children, when they leave their room, they're convinced that, you know, their stuffed animals are like speaking to one another and they are , everything is alive. But we have to be brainwashed daily to forget that, to not remember that. So, you know, they put us in schools like facing forward to like look at the chalkboard from the time we were like five years old and don't cease for 12 years. And then, you know, we go into the office or whatever, and all of that is in dedication to make us not see that the world is alive and communicating to us.
And it's really amazing how that works. Like even in the dehumanization of other beings, like other humans, it's been effective, right? Like that we can be taught like, oh, these people don't feel pain in the same way. They don't have the same emotions, they don't love their children as much. All of this stuff, when you can see plainly that they, whoever they are, the people at the end of the point of finger absolutely do, like, I wrote about that actually in my book with Descartes, who was notorious for his, belief that animals didn't feel pain. And it's just mind boggling to me that someone could say that. Any child can see that they do feel pain, that it's just so obvious. So I'm just like, what do you have to do to yourself to not be able to see that?
right. What monumental dismemberment did you go through in order to like dissociate so fucking hard.
Exactly. And that's why I think it's our role to reassociate like that's what an enchantment is for me, is re-association or reweaving those strands of intimacy or the weird, you know, the web of the wyrd , like making those connections again. And we don't have to even do it publicly. Like if you play songs to the forest and no one ever hears it, but the forest who's a lot, you know, a lot of beings in the forest, That still does what it's supposed to do, it still builds that relationship.
It still builds that network. The forest still hears it, you know, like you don't have to record a relationship, like you're like whispering to your lover in bed and then like play it in a gallery for it to be important.
I love it I love that. Yeah. the intimacy of things that aren't shared and like the depth of that can be a really, really powerful form of showing love,
Not sharing it can be like a powerful form of sharing love, you know, just by making a special relationship.
I feel like at least. 60% of my, like, quote work is stuff that people don't see. And I don't mean like the preparatory stuff, but I mean like literally 60% of like the things that I create are for not humans basically.
love it.
And then I'm always kind of feeling the tension of inner outer or like seen unseen as someone who does do like public presentations of their work and stuff like that. What is the magic of visibility then? Because there is magic in visibility and there is magic in sharing. but it's something that I find myself organizing and feeling into like with each passing season,
Yeah. I mean, I think so often we know how to do it right, like we know when. to whisper to our lover and we know when to make a speech at like the wedding or whatever. We know when something should be public and when something should be private. And, the value in each of those forms of speech and connection. And again, we have to kind of be trained to think that we don't,
Yeah. You know, I have one last question, Amanda, and I ask this Pretty much every guest since we started a couple years ago, but what advice would you have for your younger emergent art witch self?
I would advise them to start making their own rituals and to trust what comes forth from within them and to listen to it. And most importantly, to do it. So for instance, I had a dream the other day that spirit likes blue offerings. Spirit came to me my dream and said, I want you to give me blue things.
And so I am, I do, I've been burning this blue incense. I give them blueberries. Uh, I might sing the blues to them. Um, And so a lot of the time ideas like that flicker through our mind. , like, butterflies or whatever, and we kind of don't notice them or we don't trust 'em, and we think, oh, that's just nothing.
And then we go read a book that tells us what to do. But if you can develop a practice of listening to your own inner voice, then it will lead you to that empowering and intimate connection with the world and the world around you. It's really like listening practice and the way that you show spirit that you're listening, whether it's the tree spirit or it's your own inner intuition, is by by taking an action.
So if you are sitting near a tree and it seems to speak to you and you think, oh, it said that it wants a hug, it said that it wants a song, then do it. Let yourself do it. As you do that, you will become more empowered to remember your own freedom and your own wild self. The part of you that can't be forced to submit to an authority. And if you do that, you will move in the right direction, but it takes a lot of practice. And so be patient with yourself. I think that's what advice I'd give. What advice would you give
I've never had anyone reflect that back to me and ask me. I love that
I would invite myself to just trust, what's coming through, as a kid, so many of the things That, like now I go and I'm like, oh, it's, this is what it means to be psychic or this is what I know to be psychic, or information that comes through ways of knowing they were already happening long before I ever said I'm a witch or you know, like this or that. I think it's just yes, listening and then trusting and, and taking expansive action on behalf of, of what's coming through you.
Yeah. That, yeah, exactly. I think a lot of Elder witches, if I could call myself that now, will say that because it's true and also the way to become an artist is to trust the ideas that are coming through you and not need that external validation to tell you that you have a right to create based on that.
That's the moment that you become an artist rather than someone who aspires to be an artist, is the moment that you trust the voice that's coming through you. That's when you hit the vein of inspiration and it does come.
Yeah. I mean it's, it's our existence,
Yeah. It's there it's there for us anytime. We just forget. Right. So maybe we, you know, and, and I guess being an artist and being a witch is not, I think it was Sarte who talks about how we have this idea that if you're a hero, you're a hero all the time. But that in fact, like sometimes you're not . You're only a, hero. When you're doing a heroic action, then you might be like a ghoster or like a, you know, someone who doesn't take out the trash or whatever, like depending on what moment you're in. But like, we are witches when we are trusting ourselves. We are artists when we are listening to that inner voice.
And then the next moment we might really not be in that.
Oh, thank you so much, Amanda, for everything that you shared. This conversation, just I know I'm gonna come back over and over and be nourished by it and find more like facets to the gem that you just cut. . It's just beautiful.
Thank you so much for inviting me for, for these brilliant questions. I love to talk about art and witchcraft and .it's not something that, people often ask me about, so it's really my pleasure.
Thank you for, for having me on this beautiful. show. Thank you for making this show and doing the work that you do in the world. Thank you for singing to the trees. Thank you for singing to the forest. Thank you for making music for The ocean I am so glad you're doing that. And. The ocean and me sees and honors the singer in you.
Thank you. I'd love to hear, I know that there's so many people you know that would just love to connect more to your work and anything that you have coming up, where could they find you or start to connect and learn more about what you do And, share.
Yeah. So, um, I have a substack called Mystery Cult, where I talk about magic and give all sorts of ideas and my thoughts on it and everything. So, please join me there and you can also follow me on Instagram at Oracle of LA if you're wondering if you're a witch or one, and know more about my own process of becoming one you can read my book, Initiated: Memoir of a Witch. Uh, Usually helps people remember that they already are witches. Um, that's the most common thing that people tell me about it. And what else? Oh, I have a podcast between the World's podcast, and you can find that any place you listen to podcasts. Well, I'm not sure when this is coming out cuz I've got, I've got some shows coming up.
But, just check in with my Instagram or check in with my substack and you should be able to find out what kind of work you could come see me do in person. Also, you could book a session with me via my website, www.oracleoflosangeles.com. If you want some support with ritual or divination or, um, healing work, I'm there for you.
Yeah, please, everyone. Check out Amanda's work because you. give a lot that is like free and available and accessible and also like really, really deep . So like there's just a lot of generosity that you've woven into your offerings.
Thank you. I, I really do want everybody to be able to access it and, um, I also wanna like, make, uh, an abundant living and so far that's been working, you know, like people are really supportive of my work, you know, especially people who have the means to be able to support me well, and then like if people also, like for instance on my substack like if you wanted to attend my moon rituals, or get my new moon downloads and you're experiencing financial hardship, you can always email me and I've got scholarships available as well. So I want everybody to be able to participate.
Thank you so, so much, Amanda. I just appreciate you and everything you share so much.
Same. I'm so glad that we're in the witch world together.